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How will bills be paid during the pandemic?

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  • How will bills be paid during the pandemic?

    Attention moderators, this is not a political discussion. It deals with economic realities during the pandemic. Let's talk creatively on ways to handle paying our bills during the pandemic, especially in the 2nd and 3rd waves. I felt it should be in the preparedness section since it is open to everyone. I hope that you don't move it to the Deliberation Room. It's my main preparedness concern, a silent one that I've been avoiding for the last two years. We need a open dialog to come to some reasonable and pragmatic solutions. I hope that through an open dialectic we can find a way to assist everyone.

    Everyone is in the same boat now. We will all face this pandemic together. Even if we survive, we must rebuild later. No country will most likely remain unscathed. Here's my observations to set the stage. These are not criticisms of our state, they merely are our collective reality.

    Federal, state, and local governments are facing record budget deficits. Many homeowners owe more on their homes than the homes are valued. That loss of value translates to lower property taxes. We're averaging more than ten percent unemployment across the US. While there has been a increase in the stock market since the presidential election, much of savings in the form of securities and cash has been lost. Many retirees have lost a significant amount of retirement savings...maybe a minimum of a third of it's former value.

    Imagine work, school and government closures during the pandemic. How many days have to pass before many businesses are seriously in arrears? How much uncollectable debt will there be? How will businesses pay their rents? Businesses might lose stock or materials during the pandemic. I can imagine a high rate of claims for those folks. Will the insurance claims even be collectible when so many are making claims?

    Some authorities have stated that business owners should pay for pandemic absences. Most are unprepared for continuing to both pay for their absent employees salaries and trying to stay afloat. Large corporations may have the funds...for a while. What happens later if those absences are sustained?

    Large numbers of deaths may occur to people with insurance. Will the insurance companies face bankruptcy with so many claims? Many people do not have insurance. Who will care for the survivors when they face not only expensive medical bills from the death of their loved ones, but also the loss of income.

    Many Americans live paycheck to paycheck with a paper thin amount of savings. How will people make it for a month or more without one? How will people pay their rents, utilities, credit card payments, school loans, installment loans, etc? How will they buy groceries or fill up their cars with gas?

    Are you getting the picture now? We can talk about preparedness all day long, but ultimately our supplies run out and we have to buy more. For those of us who have prepared, we've gone without in order to squirrel away our supplies. We know how hard this is to do and what a sacrifice it is. We've done it ourselves and understand why some of you are reticent.

    Let's say that our leadership suspends loan repayments? How long is that viable for those businesses? Utility payments can be suspended since they are run by local governments, but ultimately they need more chlorine for water treatment and coal for electricity generation. They'll need cash to pay suppliers.

    We can all imagine the phone and utilities being cut off and the consequences of that happening during the winter. In that same winter scenario, people can run out of food, and groceries can run out of supplies. People can and will hunt and fish for a time. There are less and less wild areas, and to be honest many people have not ever used those skills before, nor do they have the tools to do so. It will be a long wait until the spring to grow crops, and an even longer wait until the late summer and autumn for harvesting beans and potatoes. This requires seeds, fertilizer, soil, and skill. Some industrious farmers can switch to small scale operations of raising rabbits and chickens, but these will take time to develop. They will need to be paid.

    We can, most likely, operate in a barter system at the local level, once the flu dies down some. That won't work for gasoline, but some enterprising scientific folks can create biodiesel or ethanol operations. These are very long term operations that are demanding.

    If the utilities fail, we will have no modes of communication that will work for very long. Ham operators, if they've planned well, have solar backup plans. Diesel and gas generators will work for a time, until the supplies run out. We'll need those lines of communication in order for the officials to tell us their plans. Many people will not have planned and will rely upon the radios in their cars for communication. That will only work for so long. Ham operator transmit and receive on very different frequencies, so many people unless truly prepared will simply have no communication. Isolated people, low on food, money, and morale will do uncoordinated, silly, dangerous and perhaps immoral things in order to survive.

    We need some ideas...some very creative ones if this will be a long process as it was in 1918. Our very best minds should be working on the economic, scientific, administrative, and medical aspects of the pandemic. We need leadership and a open dialog with our governments in order to share ideas.

    We are not the same people who survived the 1918 pandemic. We know more about the world and have more technology, that's true. We are also far less able to survive as generalists i.e. hunt, fish, can vegetables, ride horses, etc.

    People have survive catastrophes before. As I recall, Canadians experienced long term ice storms several decades ago. Australians experienced at least a month of power outages some time back. The people of Bosnia and Croatia suffered for extended periods of time during war. Some of their ideas may assist us all.

    I can imagine, if things truly turn dire, that all of us will be working for the government in some capacity. Orphans will need to be cared for. Patients will need not only doctors and nurses, but surplus staff to take care of basic needs. We'll need communicators to travel to different communities to share what has happened and what is being planned. Basic infrastructure like re-staffing utilities and stores will need to happen. Large scale agricultural and livestock operations will need extra assistance. The dead will need to be buried.

    It may very well be that our officials will temporarily suspend payments and offer economic assistance to us all. That will have cascading consequences.

    In my household, we are planing to have much more than the recommended amounts of cash on hand. If the banks close, and ATMs don't work, and credit card machines are unoperational....well it might be good to have several thousand on hand as a buffer. I know that most of you cannot do that. Our officials know that too.

    You're probably thinking that this can't be happening, and that in no way can things ever get this dire. My answer to that is, why not? Because you live in a modern society, then are you thinking it will always be so?

    If I am wrong, then preparing by thinking through this scenario costs nothing. It becomes merely an academic exercise. If you plan economically, it costs nothing...just a temporary reallocation of resources. If you purchase supplies ahead of time, you will only not have to purchase them later.

    If I am right, then we will have a plan. If I am right and you have plenty of cash later, you will be able to pay for goods at least for a time. If I'm right and you store up for the pandemic, you may have a diversity of things that your neighbors won't have.

    Very few of us have enough money to pay our rents and mortgages six months ahead of schedule. That's just not an option. I'm guessing if things get dire, they'll be an amnesty program. We cannot expect a free ride on utility operations though.

    I can imagine something like a special tax that each of us will owe the government post-pandemic to cover the costs of government intervention. I expect that kind of solution.

    What ideas do you have?

  • #2
    Re: How will bills be paid during the pandemic?

    One thought is, if the virus truly mutates into a more deadly virus, go to the bank and take out all of your money.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: How will bills be paid during the pandemic?

      Google "force majeure". You'll pull up some interesting legal language concerning backing out of contracts due to "acts of God".

      How much cash would be enough to get one through the worst of it?



      SAN ANTONIO, Sept. 15 /PRNewswire/ -- Seventy one percent of American
      employees are living paycheck to paycheck, according to results released today
      from the 2008 "Getting Paid In America" survey.

      The online survey by the American Payroll Association asked respondents
      how difficult it would be to meet their current financial obligations if their
      paycheck were delayed for a week. An overwhelming 31,946 of more than 45,000
      respondents said they'd find it difficult to meet their financial obligations
      if their paycheck were delayed for just one week. This is a four percent
      increase from 2007, when 67 percent of respondents reported living paycheck to
      paycheck.
      "The results clearly indicate that Americans are finding it difficult to
      save money," said Dan Maddux, executive director of the American Payroll
      Association. "As the cost of everything continues to rise, American employees
      should talk to their payroll departments about free programs like flexible
      spending accounts, which will help them pay for everyday expenses like medical
      and child care."
      Savings with flexible spending accounts can easily total more than $3,000
      per year for the average family. Employees can save up to 35 percent off the
      cost of daycare and qualified summer camp for kids, elder care for aging
      parents, and everything from contact lenses to doctor's visits -- even
      over-the-counter medical needs like aspirin and Band-Aids.
      "Flexible spending accounts are just one more way we can help employees
      better manage their benefits and expenses," said Ed Bernice, CFO of WorkForce
      Software.
      The "Getting Paid In America" survey was held in conjunction with APA's
      annual public awareness campaign, National Payroll Week (NPW), held annually
      the week of Labor Day. More than 45,000 employees responded to the survey,
      providing insight into how workers are paid in America. For complete survey
      results or more information on the National Payroll Week awareness campaign,
      visit http://www.nationalpayrollweek.com.
      San Antonio - New York - Washington, D.C. - Las Vegas
      Established in 1982, the American Payroll Association (APA) is the nation's
      leader in payroll education, publications, and training. The nonprofit
      association conducts more than 300 payroll training conferences and seminars
      across the country each year and publishes a complete library of resource
      texts and newsletters. Every year, nearly 20,000 professionals attend APA
      training sessions. Representing more than 23,000 members, APA is the
      industry's highly respected and collective voice in Washington, D.C.
      Visit APA online at http://www.americanpayroll.org.
      SOURCE American Payroll Association

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: How will bills be paid during the pandemic?

        Originally posted by Alwaysprepared View Post
        One thought is, if the virus truly mutates into a more deadly virus, go to the bank and take out all of your money.
        The following are my humble opinions.

        1) Finances: have and emergency fund.
        A lot of people may have the same idea and banks only have enough cash on hand for average daily transaction (and sometimes not that much). I like Dave Ramsey's idea of keeping an emergency fund on hand just in case. If a pandemic is happening I for one do not want to be waiting in a bank line with a bunch of potentially infected people.

        2) Power - heat & cooking: have a safe alternative source and warm clothing/bedding
        The problem is that if the power grid or communications grid goes down during a pandemic there may be more problem getting techs to show up for work to fix it.

        3) Food & water
        Store some extra food and water just in case. Have a way to safely cook it if the power goes out. If I was dependent on public water I would want to have an adequate water filter if the local water filtration plant broke down or ran out of chemicals needed to purify the water during the pandemic or other long term emergency. A safe way to boil water could be a good thing to have. Knowing how to use this equipment correctly and safely is a must.

        4) Informal markets
        Informal or black markets traditionally occur in society when supply lines are interrupted and shortages or rationing occurs.

        5) Local food production as food source
        In 1918 major US cities were surrounded by farms that provided for their meat and produce in season. This is no longer the case. Small sustainable farms and family gardens can be set up in a relatively short time if the needed supplies of seed, fertilizer, safe unpolluted land & water and trained labor are available. The population will need enough food until these farms and gardens can become productive. During WWII over 40% of the produce was the product of home gardens. A lot would depend on; at what point of the growing season the pandemic hit. If it hit too late in the season food could not be grown and many breeding animals might be consumed as food and then not be available to produce future generations. Rabbits and chickens were raised in urban backyards during the Great Depression. They take minimum housing and a reliable source of safe food and water. A well cared for milk goat can provide an average family with more than enough milk if it has sufficient safe food, water and shelter. Pigs, rabbits and chickens are also good at converting graden and kitchen food scraps in meat or in the case of chickens eggs. Additional livestock feed will be needed along with scraps in most cases. Local zoning laws may have to be changed in some areas to allow the legal ownership of livestock in some areas. Please note livestock can be dangerous.
        We were put on this earth to help and take care of one another.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: How will bills be paid during the pandemic?

          1. Finances

          The best advice I have heard to date is silver due to it's lower value. There are also alternatives to cash http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=112410

          2. Power

          We can not count on either the grid, supply of natural gas, or other normal fuels like gasoline or diesel. These are areas of critical ifrastructure. If we have up to 50% absences predicted: http://www-nmcphc.med.navy.mil/downl...nt_10Jun09.pdf (Thanks Hawkeye), many of the Northcom soldiers may work in these areas to maintain them. Recall that in 1918, military folks were among the highest percentage hit due to pandemic flu.

          You need a power source for your laptop, radio, and flashlights like: http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=101870

          Something like this to heat the cold air that is circulating in your home: http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=106711

          Alternative fuels like this for when the local wood supply diminishes:


          We need alternative plans for heating food like: http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=108426
          It is a supereffcient fuel burning stove with minimal carbon monoxide output. This one puts out 55,000 BTUs for $190


          Long term something like this: http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=112226

          Communications: Ham radio and at least a receiver to listen to police/ambulance/fire calls re: http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=110466

          3. Food and water

          Basic Prep List: http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11957

          Dr. Woodson's excellent food list: http://www.birdflumanual.com/article...pilingTips.asp

          Water: http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=103836

          Short term buy a water bob for storage: http://www.waterbob.com

          Purify with unscented bleach

          Rainwater Harvesting is the way to go long term:
          http://www.rainbarrelsandmore.com/ This explains the process, there's no need to buy from them

          5. Local food production

          You must prepare enough food and water to get you though for a long long time. If the pandemic is bad in the fall, I can see that many people will have a great difficulty coping on through the winter. Most of us can not garden until the spring and harvest in the summer and fall. That means if you garden, the first crops of veggies (vitamins and minerals but few calories in the summer), and beans in late summer (proteins and low calories). You need to stock up on vitamins big time especially for children.

          To get enough calories you need protein and fat. Yes, we can raise rabbits and chickens if we have feed for them and access to animals. I'm not betting on that, but some entrepreneurs may find away to sell them. Too many people will simply eat them. Dogs will be eaten. Local hunting areas will be decimated by over-hunting. Some hunters will be accidental shot by inexperienced hunters.

          Many people have no guns or fishing poles at all. Very few know how to trap, and it is FAR more efficient calorie-wise: http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=110363


          Medicine:
          There are several links for preparing to take care of yourself. Our medical personnel will be having an enormous amount of exposure to the flu. I expect them to get very ill indeed.

          Welcome to Press Report, your go-to destination for breaking news, insightful analysis, and in-depth reporting. In today's fast-paced world, staying informed

          The Hesperian Fund has an excellent ebook, When There is No Doctor, and it can be found here: http://www.hesperian.org/Translations_and_Downloads.php

          You must store medicine. It will be in short supply. It should be at the top of your purchased items. People will die of many things beside flu. A simple cut can cause a life threatening infection when undernourished and exposed to the cold on a long term basis.


          Finally you cannot bury the dead in ice cold ground. You must dig those trenches early, and store topsoil in your garage for when that happens. If everyone in a suburb doesn't take proper precautions, the bodies will leach into the local lakes and streams. See this link:

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