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  • #31
    Re: Homologous Recombination is Very Rare or Absent in Human Influenza A Virus

    147
    RESULTS AND DISCUSSION

    148
    Two of the ten human influenza A/H3N2 virus data sets (PB2 and NP) analyzed here

    149
    contained sequences with statistically significant mosaic structure, as determined by 3SEQ, and

    150
    with putative recombinant sections that were each sufficiently long (>100 nt) that they could be

    151
    re-analyzed by phylogenetic recombination detection methods. Three of the remaining eight

    152
    A/H3N2 data sets (PA, NA, MP) and one of the A/H1N1 data sets (NA) also resulted in 3SEQ p153

    values that revealed a strong signal of mosaicism, but in all these cases the inferred breakpoints
    154
    were either close to the gene segment?s endpoints, or very close to each other, making it

    155
    impossible to infer a credible phylogeny. The remaining five A/H3N2 data sets (PB1, HA,

    156
    HA413, NS, NA413 ? the 413-suffix meaning that it is the HA or NA data set containing 413

    157
    sequences) and seven of the A/H1N1 data sets (PB2, PB1, PA, HA, NP, MP, NS) did not

    158
    contain any statistically significant mosaic signals that survived a Dunn-?id?k correction in

    159
    3SEQ. Recombination analysis results are summarized in Table 1 for A/H3N2 and Table 2 for

    160
    A/H1N1. The two putative recombinant data sets are discussed in more detail below.

    161
    The H3N2 PB2 data set assembled here contained 912 distinct sequences, one of which

    162
    ? A/New York/11/2003 ? statistically supported a mosaic structure with both mosaic regions

    163
    longer than 100nt. The two most likely parental sequences, identified as A/Hong Kong/14/1974

    164
    (major parent) and A/New York/424/1999 (minor parent), revealed a strong mosaic signal

    165
    (corrected p = 0.013) in relation to A/New York/11/2003. However, while the phylogenies

    166
    inferred for the minor (positions 202?2189, Figure 1a) and major (positions 1?201 and 2190?

    167
    2347, Figure 1b) segments revealed topological movement of the putative recombinant

    168
    sequence relative to the parental sequences, a general lack of phylogenetic resolution, reflected

    169
    in low levels of bootstrap support (particularly in the major segment), meant that there was

    170 insufficient signal to infer phylogenetic incongruence. Since support for phylogenetic
    incongruence is necessarily made up of two components ? the phylogenetic
    171 relationship among

    172
    the parents and recombinant on the major and minor trees ? we call the signal ?weak? if one of

    173
    the components receives only low bootstrap support.

    174
    For the NP data set of A/H3N2 viruses, a single sequence ? A/Christchurch/14/2004 ?

    175
    supported a mosaic structure with both candidate recombinant regions longer than 100 nt. The

    176
    candidate parental sequences identified by 3SEQ were A/Beijing/1/1968 as the major parent

    177
    and A/New York/153/1999 as the minor parent (clonality among these three isolates is rejected

    178
    at corrected p = 0.032). The ML tree for the region 98-1454 is presented in Figure 2a while that

    179
    for regions 1-97 and 1455-1570 is shown in Figure 2b. In these phylogenies, the putative

    180
    recombinant sequence was clearly more closely related to a different parent in each sequence

    181
    region. The phylogenies also revealed sequence A/New York/381/2004 as a better candidate

    182
    for the minor parent than A/New York/153/1999; the mosaic signal when assuming A/New

    183
    York/381/2004 as the minor parent in the recombination event was still strong (corrected p =

    184
    0.052). However, as in the PB2 data set, the lack of bootstrap support in the phylogeny inferred

    185
    for the major segment indicates that there is in reality an insufficiently strong signal for

    186
    phylogenetic incongruence to conclude that homologous recombination has occurred.

    187
    For the two candidate recombinants A/New York/11/2003 (PB2) and

    188
    A/Christchurch/14/2004 (NP), it is also puzzling that the parental sequences were sampled 25

    189
    and 31 years apart, respectively. Hence, for one of these recombination events to have

    190
    occurred, a lineage of viruses closely related to an ?archaic? virus (either A/Hong Kong/14/1974

    191
    or A/Beijing/1/1968) must have circulated until at least 1999 and recombined with A/New

    192
    York/424/1999 or A/New York/153/1999. Given the rapid rate of influenza A virus mutation

    193
    through frequent RNA polymerase error, as well as the rapid lineage turnover driven by positive

    194
    selection on the major antigenic proteins (6, 11, 12, 23), this scenario seems extremely unlikely.

    195 Thus, laboratory error, such as template switching during amplification in a mixed or
    contaminated sample, is a likely explanation of these apparent homologous
    196 recombination

    197
    events.

    198
    In sum, our study has revealed that no sequence of human influenza A virus contains a

    199
    clear signature of phylogenetic incongruence indicative of the action of homologous RNA

    200
    recombination. Given that more than 10,000 distinct sequences were analyzed, this constitutes

    201
    strong evidence that homologous recombination plays only a very minor role, if any, in the

    202
    evolution of human influenza A virus. More generally, the occurrence of phylogenetic

    203
    incongruence does not in itself constitute conclusive evidence for this process. Specifically,

    204
    because our analysis is necessarily based on viral consensus sequences rather than the myriad

    205
    individual viral molecules that characterize any infection, it is equally plausible that the

    206
    ?recombinants? detected here in fact represent cases of mixed infection in individual hosts

    207
    followed by the amplification and sequencing of different viral molecules, thereby producing

    208
    laboratory-generated artificial recombinants. Hence, to demonstrate conclusively the

    209
    occurrence of homologous recombination in influenza A virus it will be necessary either to clone

    210
    (or plaque purify) and sequence multiple viral genomes from an individual host and demonstrate

    211
    the presence of the recombinant and both parental genotypes within the sample (1), or to show

    212
    that recombinant sequences form a distinct circulating lineage, with readily identifiable parents,

    213
    that is transmitted among multiple individuals in a population (30).

    214
    Finally, although there were 315 sequences in the data analyzed here that carried a

    215
    strong mosaic signal as identified by 3SEQ, it was impossible to verify the vast majority of these

    216
    as recombinants since the putative recombinant regions were too short to infer a credible

    217
    phylogenetic history. It is therefore possible that homologous recombination, should it occur in

    218
    influenza A virus, more commonly involves the transfer of very short sections of RNA, a process

    219
    that would be undetectable by the majority of other methods devised to detect recombination. If

    220
    homologous recombination of short segments is determined to be a relevant process in

    221 influenza A virus evolution, the basis of our more frequent observation of mosaicism in A/H3N2
    viruses compared to A/H1N1 viruses will need to be investigated further. However,
    222 by far the

    223
    strongest signal in the influenza A virus sequence data analyzed here is that of strict clonality,

    224
    supporting most models of influenza virus evolution proposed to date.

    225
    226
    ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS

    227
    The research undertaken in this study was funded in part by Resources for the Future (MFB),

    228
    NIH/NIGMS grant P50GM071508 (MFB), National Institutes of Health Grant GM28016 (MFB),

    229
    NIH grant number GM080533-01 (ECH), and the Intramural Research Program of the NIH, and

    230
    the NIAID (JKT). We thank John Zollweg and Linda Woodard at the Cornell University Center

    231
    for Advanced Computing for suggesting algorithmic improvements to 3SEQ, as well as two

    232 anonymous reviewers for helpful suggestions

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Homologous Recombination is Very Rare or Absent in Human Influenza A Virus

      We need a translation of the post above into easily understood language.

      It would be interesting to have a discussion of the paper's stated rarity of recombination as opposed to the reality of recombination's daily occurrence.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Homologous Recombination is Very Rare or Absent in Human Influenza A Virus

        Influenza A viruses are a major cause of respiratory disease in humans,
        43 responsible for

        44
        36,000 annual deaths in United States alone (7, 28) and occasional widespread pandemics

        45
        associated with much higher levels of mortality and morbidity (27). The viral genome is

        46
        comprised of eight negative-strand RNA segments, with a combined length of ~13.6 kb, that can

        47
        evolve through a variety of mechanisms. Most notably, the lack of a proof-reading mechanism

        48
        during RNA replication results in a high frequency of point mutations which, when combined

        49
        with large population sizes and short generation times, gives influenza A virus the ability to

        50
        generate quickly both antigenic variants that can escape host immunity ? a process termed

        51
        antigenic drift (5, 29) ? as well as genotypes that provide resistance to anti-viral agents such as

        52
        the adamantanes (9) and neuraminidase inhibitors (2). In addition to generating genetic

        53
        diversity by rapid mutation, when multiple viruses co-infect a single cell the eight segments of

        54
        the influenza virus genome can reassort and yield progeny virions with a novel combination of

        55
        segments ? a process termed antigenic shift. Such reassortment is well documented among

        56
        those viral strains that differ in their host species, such as humans and birds. Reassortment of

        57
        this type, involving the acquisition from avian hosts of new polymerase PB1, hemagglutinin

        58
        (HA), and/or neuraminidase (NA) segments to which there was no prior human immunity,

        59
        played a major role in the genesis of the human influenza pandemics of 1957 and 1968 (15, 22).

        60
        More recently, intra-subtype reassortment has also been shown to occur frequently among co61

        circulating human H3N2 influenza A viruses (14, 18), which may also impact ongoing antigenic
        62
        evolution (14). In addition to reassortment among RNA segments, intragenic recombination

        63
        between different RNA segments, commonly referred to as non-homologous recombination (3,

        64
        20, 25), as well as intragenic recombination between viral RNA and exogenous RNA (16) have

        65
        been observed and may possibly play a role in determining pathogenicity (25).

        66
        More controversial, however, is the occurrence of homologous recombination in

        67
        influenza viruses, most likely involving copy-choice (template-switching) replication of RNA

        68 molecules that co-infect a single cell. Although bioinformatic evidence for homologous
        recombination has been suggested (13, 19), these results remain unsubstantiated,
        69 with

        70
        extensive lineage-specific rate variation a likely source of a false-positive signal for at least

        71
        some putative recombination events (24, 31). Indeed, because the genomic RNA generated

        72
        during replication is rapidly packaged with ribonucleoprotein, which will act to prevent the

        73
        occurrence of template-switching that is central to copy-choice replication, homologous RNA

        74
        recombination is thought to occur rarely, if at all, in both influenza viruses (17), and negative75

        strand RNA viruses in general (8). In particular, a comprehensive phylogenetic analysis of
        76
        recombination in negative-sense RNA viruses found only sporadic evidence for recombination,

        77
        and not among influenza viruses (8), although the process was recently demonstrated in Zaire

        78
        ebolavirus, an unsegmented negative-sense single-stranded RNA virus (30). If proven to occur,

        79
        homologous recombination would facilitate two evolutionary processes in influenza virus: the

        80
        purging of deleterious mutations and the rapid generation of novel genotypes, potentially

        81
        including new antigenic and drug-resistant variants.

        82
        To assess whether homologous recombination has played a role in shaping the genetic

        83
        diversity of human influenza A virus we compiled a data set of 13,852 sequences representing

        84
        all eight RNA segments of isolates of A/H1N1 and A/H3N2 subtypes. Using an exhaustive

        85
        search method (4), we statistically assessed the possibility of every potential two-breakpoint

        86
        homologous recombination event, considering each sequence as a possible recombinant and

        87
        searching over all possible parents and all possible breakpoints. In our data set, this translated

        88
        to considering over seven billion sequence triplets, where two of the sequences in each triplet

        89
        are posited to have recombined to form the third sequence in the triplet. For those sequences

        90
        identified by this method to contain putative recombinant sections longer than 100 nucleotides

        91
        (nt), we used more stringent phylogenetic methods to further verify that they contained an

        92
        evolutionary signal (i.e. phylogenetic incongruence) compatible with the action of homologous

        93 recombination.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Homologous Recombination is Very Rare or Absent in Human Influenza A Virus

          MATERIALS
          95 AND METHODS

          96
          Sequence data. Nucleotide sequences of human influenza A virus were obtained from

          97

          98
          and aligned using MUSCLE (10). Sixteen sets of sequences, two for each RNA segment, were

          99
          obtained by downloading all of the full-length subtype A/H3N2 and subtype A/H1N1 sequences

          100
          generated through the NIH/NIAID Influenza Genome Sequencing Project. In addition, two

          101
          previously published data sets comprising 413 HA and NA segments of human A/H3N2 viruses

          102
          were also included in the analysis (18). After removing duplicate sequences that were identical

          103
          at the nucleotide level, a final subset of 10,492 sequences was analyzed.

          104
          Recombination analysis. As an initial screen for possible recombination, each of the

          105
          18 data sets was first analyzed using the 3SEQ program (4). 3SEQ tests all possible two106

          breakpoint recombination events for each triplet of sequences in the data set, assigns a
          p-value

          107
          (rejecting clonality) to each sequence triplet, and infers breakpoints. Breakpoint pairs are found

          108
          using a parsimony criterion, with the most likely breakpoint positions being those that minimize

          109
          the number of mutations between the putative recombinant sequence and a two-breakpoint

          110
          mosaic of the parental sequences. Breakpoint pairs are reported as ranges of nucleotide sites

          111
          since there are multiple pairs of breakpoints that can satisfy this parsimony criterion. 3SEQ

          112
          reports a p-value by calculating the exact probability that this type of recombination signal would

          113
          be observed under the null hypothesis of clonal (non-recombinant) evolution. Finally, all p114

          values are corrected with a Dunn-?id?k correction for the large number of triplets tested. If a
          115
          particular sequence triplet had a corrected p < 0.05, and if the inferred breakpoints guaranteed

          116
          that the shortest possible recombinant segment was longer than 100nt (which we deemed

          117
          suitable for phylogenetic analysis), a secondary phylogenetic analysis of the data was used as

          118
          an independent verification of putative homologous recombination identified among these

          119 sequence triplets. Given that 3SEQ is one of the most powerful methods for detecting
          recombination (4) and is the only method available that can scan hundreds
          120 of sequences at a

          121
          time and identify the candidate recombinants with breakpoints and p-values, it is an appropriate

          122
          method for detecting recombination in large data sets of influenza A virus. However, although

          123
          simulations show that 3SEQ is generally robust to false-positive results (4), lineage-specific rate

          124
          variation can generate apparent recombinants that triplet methods (like 3SEQ) detect as real

          125
          recombinants.

          126
          To minimize the possibility of false-positive results, we performed a secondary

          127
          phylogenetic analysis of recombination in our data sets of influenza A virus. For each putative

          128
          recombinant (or set of recombinants with the same breakpoints), the entire data set alignment

          129
          was divided at the breakpoint positions established by 3SEQ. If two recombination breakpoints

          130
          were found in a single sequence, the sequence region between the breakpoints is denoted the

          131
          ?minor? region, generated by the minor parent, and the remainder referred to as the ?major?

          132
          region, generated by the major parent. Because of the very large size of the data sets in this

          133
          study, initial neighbor-joining (NJ) phylogenetic trees were inferred using the PAUP* package

          134
          (26) on either side of the putative breakpoints. If evidence for phylogenetic incongruence was

          135
          apparent due to a change in topological position of specific sequences, a more detailed analysis

          136
          using maximum likelihood (ML) phylogenetic trees was undertaken. In this case

          137
          phylogenetically representative sequences, along with those closely related to the putative

          138
          recombinants, were selected from the data sets to comprise a final data set of 30-40 sequences

          139
          on which rigorous phylogenetic analyses could be undertaken using the breakpoints determined

          140
          using 3SEQ. For these analyses, the best-fit model of nucleotide substitution was determined

          141
          using MODELTEST (21) (details available from the authors on request) and phylogenetic trees

          142
          were inferred under this model using the ML method available in PAUP* (26), employing TBR

          143
          branch-swapping in each case. Finally, to assess the degree of support for the differing

          144
          phylogenetic positions of each putative recombinant, a bootstrap re-sampling analysis was

          145 undertaken using 1000 replicate NJ trees inferred under the best-fit substitution model.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Homologous Recombination is Very Rare or Absent in Human Influenza A Virus

            search over all pairs of sequences and all (double) breakpoints whether
            the relative number of differences within the breakpoints differs from
            the relative number of differences outside the part enclosed by the breakpoints.

            No triples needed, just pairs.
            55 million pairs, not 192 billion triplets (how do they get 7 billion ?)

            took me and Frenchie 2 days per segment of 5000 sequences for single breakpoint
            in 50 nucletide intervals.
            (not yet speed optimized)

            quite some recombinations in H5N1,H9N2 few in H3N2,H1N1.
            several obvious sequence-errors
            I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
            my current links: http://bit.ly/hFI7H ILI-charts: http://bit.ly/CcRgT

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Homologous Recombination is Very Rare or Absent in Human Influenza A Virus

              Originally posted by Malcolm View Post
              We need a translation of the post above into easily understood language.

              It would be interesting to have a discussion of the paper's stated rarity of recombination as opposed to the reality of recombination's daily occurrence.
              Actually, the paper says it is hard to find recombination that the author's like and can verify with phyogenetic trees (>100 nt). The paper acknowledges smaller regions of recombination and ignores the possibilty that the smaller regions became smaller because of additional recombination. In addition, the paper limits analysis to a human dataset. Thus, recombination with swine or birds is not analyzed. Similarly, the fact that some obvious examples are missing suggests that the human dataset was also limited, or the program just misses the obvious (like the 2002 South Korean HA sequences which have human sequences in circulation a decade earlier).

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Homologous Recombination is Very Rare or Absent in Human Influenza A Virus

                Originally posted by niman View Post
                Actually, the paper says it is hard to find recombination that the author's like and can verify with phyogenetic trees (>100 nt). The paper acknowledges smaller regions of recombination and ignores the possibilty that the smaller regions became smaller because of additional recombination. In addition, the paper limits analysis to a human dataset. Thus, recombination with swine or birds is not analyzed. Similarly, the fact that some obvious examples are missing suggests that the human dataset was also limited, or the program just misses the obvious (like the 2002 South Korean HA sequences which have human sequences in circulation a decade earlier).
                The analysis only looks at full sequences, so sequences like the south Korean HA sequences with obvious recombination are excluded.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Homologous Recombination is Very Rare or Absent in Human Influenza A Virus

                  Originally posted by Malcolm View Post
                  We need a translation of the post above into easily understood language.

                  It would be interesting to have a discussion of the paper's stated rarity of recombination as opposed to the reality of recombination's daily occurrence.
                  I am still going through the problems withn this paper, but here are a few general considerations.

                  First and foremost is the fact that most scientists shy away from publishing negative data because they know that negatives can be created by MANY factors that can creep into the experimental design that lead to false negatives, and this paper is a case in point.

                  The paper has put a LARGE number of restrictions on the data, which takes a VERY biased database and biases it further.

                  The limitations include a requirement for a full human sequence for inclusion in the database. This elimnates many sequences from China, Korea, and southeast Asia, where much of the diversity and recombination originates. Similarly, birds and pigs are excluded, which represent signifiant influenza genetic reservoirs. Data analysis imposes further limitations. Short stretches of recombination are not detailed because they do not lend themselves to phylogenetic analysis.

                  As a result, the analysis fails to find some glaring examples in human influenza, and fails to address glaring examples in swine (other than a quick handwave to suggests positives examples are lab error due to contamination).

                  Some of the above can be seen in the glaring South Korean H3N2 isolates from 2002. The HA sequences are around 1650 base pairs in length, but it looks like all HA sequences less than 1700 were excluded from this analysis.

                  The South Korean sequences switch from a contemporary 2002 H3 sequence at about position 575 and through approximately position 1000 switch over to a human H3 sequence from a decade earlier. However, most of the sequneces from a decade earlier are only about 1000 base pairs, so they would also be exlcuded from the database used in the paper.

                  Consequently, the analysis would miss the recombinants (there are six) and the parents (many, but only 1000 BP).

                  This series alone would invalidate the major conclusion of the paper. The same general recombination was OBVIOUS in six isolates, which formed two subgroups. The smaller subgroups eliminates the possibility of a 1990 H3 contaminant creating a recombinant during amplification. Moreover, the sequences show that the earlier sequences can be maintained for a decade, which was the same type of result seen in the swine paper in Nature Precedings, which is referenced by this paper, but charaterized as "controversial" (because it has real data conclusively demonstrating influenza homologous recombination in multiple genes in multiple swine isolates).

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Homologous Recombination is Very Rare or Absent in Human Influenza A Virus

                    Originally posted by niman View Post
                    The analysis only looks at full sequences, so sequences like the south Korean HA sequences with obvious recombination are excluded.
                    they should still have found it.
                    E.g.:

                    Code:
                    se7a43.10
                    1112 : >A/Denmark/18-2/03(H3N2)
                    1118 : >A/Cheonnam/323/02(H3N2)
                    --------------------------------------------------------....
                    ............................................................
                    ............................................................
                    ............................................................
                    ............................................................
                    ............................o...............................
                    ............................................................
                    ............................................................
                    ............................................................
                    ............................................................
                    ..............................oo.o........o............o...o
                    .......o.........................................o.........o
                    .........o...oo....o.......................................o
                    ............................................................
                    ......................o...................oo................
                    ....o..........................o..o.........................
                    .......o..........................o.......................o.
                    ...............................o...........o................
                    ............................................................
                    ............................................................
                    .........................o..................................
                    ............................................................
                    ............................................................
                    ............................................................
                    ...................................................o........
                    ............................................................
                    ............................................................
                    ............................................................
                    .............................--------------
                    Full sequences.
                    I think the problem is that they require triples, both parents
                    I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
                    my current links: http://bit.ly/hFI7H ILI-charts: http://bit.ly/CcRgT

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Homologous Recombination is Very Rare or Absent in Human Influenza A Virus

                      Originally posted by gsgs View Post
                      they should still have found it.
                      E.g.:

                      Code:
                      se7a43.10
                      1112 : >A/Denmark/18-2/03(H3N2)
                      1118 : >A/Cheonnam/323/02(H3N2)
                      --------------------------------------------------------....
                      ............................................................
                      ............................................................
                      ............................................................
                      ............................................................
                      ............................o...............................
                      ............................................................
                      ............................................................
                      ............................................................
                      ............................................................
                      ..............................oo.o........o............o...o
                      .......o.........................................o.........o
                      .........o...oo....o.......................................o
                      ............................................................
                      ......................o...................oo................
                      ....o..........................o..o.........................
                      .......o..........................o.......................o.
                      ...............................o...........o................
                      ............................................................
                      ............................................................
                      .........................o..................................
                      ............................................................
                      ............................................................
                      ............................................................
                      ...................................................o........
                      ............................................................
                      ............................................................
                      ............................................................
                      .............................--------------
                      Full sequences.
                      I think the problem is that they require triples, both parents
                      No, the Korean sequence is about 1650 BP, so it was excluded. The other parent is from a decade earlier, like A/Seoul/45/91. It will match the 0's in the above figure, but it just goes to position 1000.

                      Your figure shows obvious diversion in the middle of the gene, but the sequences from the early 90's show where the middle sequence originated.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Homologous Recombination is Very Rare or Absent in Human Influenza A Virus

                        ahh yes, genbank gives them as partial.
                        Although 1650 is pretty long for HA
                        I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
                        my current links: http://bit.ly/hFI7H ILI-charts: http://bit.ly/CcRgT

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Homologous Recombination is Very Rare or Absent in Human Influenza A Virus

                          For those not used to looking at sequences, GSGS posted a comparison of two HA sequences from 2002/2003. A dash means the sequences are the same at the represented position and the 0's are positions that differ. Thus, the clustering of the 0's alone pretty much eliminates the basic tenet of influenza genetics, which was repeated multiple time in the paper - genetic drift is due to copy errors. Thus, the basic tenet would hold that the polymerase got very stupid in the middle of the gene and made a series of errors, but was generally error free at the beginning and end of the gene.

                          However, the HA sequences from the early 90's show that the 0's are not due to a stupid polymerase, because the 0's match the sequence of the 1991 isolate. Thus, the 0's were created by swapping the middle of the 1991 sequence for the middle of the 2002 sequence to create a recombinant withe the sequence 2002-1991-2002.

                          The paper maintains that this rarely or never happens in human influenza, yet the example posted and five other isolates from various locations in South Korea in 2002 show that it does happen, and includes slight variations on the theme.

                          The six South Korean human HA recombinants (from four distinct locations) are:

                          A/Cheonnam/323/2002(H3N2)
                          A/Cheonnam/338/2002(H3N2)
                          A/Cheonnam/340/2002(H3N2)
                          A/Kyongbuk/320/2002(H3N2)
                          A/Daejeon/258/2002(H3N2)
                          A/Incheon/260/2002(H3N2)

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Homologous Recombination is Very Rare or Absent in Human Influenza A Virus

                            the paper's method considering triples is too slow, so they unreasonably
                            limit their dataset to human H1N1 and human H3N2, but most genbank-
                            recombinations are in H5N1 and H9N2 and in swine or birds.
                            They apparantly also only find recombinations where all 2 parents are available,
                            but you can already have strong evidence of recombination when you have only one parent
                            and the recombinant.They also exclude partial sequences.
                            So they miss e.g. the pairs

                            HA : A/TW/4845/99(H1N1) , A/HK/1131/98(H1N1)
                            NA : A/Ft.Monmouth/1/47(H1N1) , A/Rhodes/47(H1N1)
                            PB2: A/HK/498/97(H3N2) , A/Albany/1/76(H3N2)
                            HA : A/Daejeon/258/02(H3N2) , A/Habana/26/05(H3N2)
                            NP : A/HK/498/97(H3N2) , A/NY/136/02(H3N2)

                            Their conclusion, that there are only few recombinations in H1N1 and H3N2
                            (e.g. as compared with reassortments or as compared with H5N1) however looks correct.
                            I see no evidence for increased frequency of small recombinations.
                            We should see increased frequency of nearby differences then, which is not observed.
                            (I had tested this earlier)

                            The work should be redone with a larger dataset and by looking at pairs
                            insteat of triples.Also some statistics to test for frequency of small
                            recombinations. And compare with other viruses or random data.

                            Another idea is to compare flu-databases with databases of other viruses (which ?),
                            where recombination is known to be frequent.
                            I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
                            my current links: http://bit.ly/hFI7H ILI-charts: http://bit.ly/CcRgT

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Homologous Recombination is Very Rare or Absent in Human Influenza A Virus

                              Originally posted by gsgs View Post
                              the paper's method considering triples is too slow, so they unreasonably
                              limit their dataset to human H1N1 and human H3N2, but most genbank-
                              recombinations are in H5N1 and H9N2 and in swine or birds.
                              They apparantly also only find recombinations where all 2 parents are available,
                              but you can already have strong evidence of recombination when you have only one parent
                              and the recombinant.They also exclude partial sequences.
                              So they miss e.g. the pairs

                              HA : A/TW/4845/99(H1N1) , A/HK/1131/98(H1N1)
                              NA : A/Ft.Monmouth/1/47(H1N1) , A/Rhodes/47(H1N1)
                              PB2: A/HK/498/97(H3N2) , A/Albany/1/76(H3N2)
                              HA : A/Daejeon/258/02(H3N2) , A/Habana/26/05(H3N2)
                              NP : A/HK/498/97(H3N2) , A/NY/136/02(H3N2)

                              Their conclusion, that there are only few recombinations in H1N1 and H3N2
                              (e.g. as compared with reassortments or as compared with H5N1) however looks correct.
                              I see no evidence for increased frequency of small recombinations.
                              We should see increased frequency of nearby differences then, which is not observed.
                              (I had tested this earlier)

                              The work should be redone with a larger dataset and by looking at pairs
                              insteat of triples.Also some statistics to test for frequency of small
                              recombinations. And compare with other viruses or random data.

                              Another idea is to compare flu-databases with databases of other viruses (which ?),
                              where recombination is known to be frequent.
                              Their analysis of full human sequences pretty much limits the bulk of sequences to a few locations (US and Australia) and most co-infections will involve closely related sequences and the recombination will look like point mutations. They would call the recombination in Egypt in H5N1 point mutations also, which won't explain the sudden appearance of a silent change on multiple genetic backgrounds at the same time, as was seen for G743A (and the same mechanism is in play for Tamiflu resistance -H274Y in H1N1).

                              Once homologous recombination is acknowledged, the slope gets VERY slippery, becasue recombination would be most common between closely related sequences (due to frequency of co-infections and ability to switch templates), which is why single nucleotide polymorphisms are really due to homologous recombination.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Which viruses to look at other than Orthomyxoviridae

                                That would mean looking at positive, rather than negative-sense ss-RNA viruses.

                                The stellar case would be the Coronaviridae. Recombination has been shown to occur between coronaviruses for many years.

                                Caution is advised, however, in comparison of these viruses, as coronavirus has a large, complex genome and it's recombination is driven by a very different mechanism than the one demonstrated by your analysis, GS. Leader sequence misalignment is not an apparent issue in influenza viral replication.

                                I think you should stay on topic to avoid confusion.

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