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  • Gardening (LONG), starting a new garden, teaching self to garden

    By reading books I have taught myself to garden organically: vegetables, herbs, and flowers. I know a tiny bit about fruit trees. I will share some of what I learned. I did veggie gardening by germinating my own seeds and growing organically. I gardened for 6 years until I moved to a place overrun with deer and am unable to garden unless I install an expensive and unsightly electric fence. I really miss gardening!

    (I also compost and feel that every family should and can easily compost. I will save that for another thread.)

    If you start your own plants from seeds you get to choose the variety. If you rely on nursery plants your selections will be limited. It is also hard to find organic veggie plants. It is also expensive to buy plants that are already started (compared to cost of a packet of seeds). The seed packet in USA is required to be dated for the year it was packaged. This is not an expiration date. Seeds can last many years if they are stored properly, which generally can be summed up to keep in a plastic sealed zip top bag in a cool and dry place (or in the refrigerator if you have space).

    Heirloom varieties are varieties which are old, different people have different lengths of time which qualifies as being called 'heirloom'; some say 100 years or older. Many of the heirloom varieties are not good for traveling by truck or long storage, so they are not often sold in grocery stores. Many taste better, though. Some of the fun of gardening is having access to eat wonderful veggies which are far superior in taste than that which we usually buy or are accustomed to having, from the grocery store.

    Heirloom varities will reproduce by seed to the same exact variety. This means if you buy a packet of seeds and grow the plant, you can save the seed to use in the future (so you don't have to rebuy new seeds the next year). There are special processes you have to do for certain varities so if you want to do that, it is something to research and learn.

    Some heirloom seeds are available and are not organic. Some seeds are hybrids but organic. Some are heirloom and organic. Pick your choice. One may think that to buy non-organic seeds but to grow organically is fine, while purists may want both organic seed and to grow organically. This is your choice.

    My favorite seed companies are:
    Cook's Garden
    Seed Savers.org
    Tomato Growers Supply Company (for a huge variety of tomatoes)
    RH Shumway
    The above mail order, paper catalogs are very educational reading as well as describe in detail why one variety is different than the others. I found this very educational and it helped me pick which varities I wanted. For example I learned that while some early bearing tomatoes are early, they don't taste so great or have a woody texture, so I decided against growing early varities.

    Seeds can easily be grown indoors under flourescent lights. You do not need to buy the very expensive 'growing lights'. I grew them in my basement under lights. I bought an inexpensive timer from Home Depot to turn the lights on and off automatically. I also rigged the lights from chains which could be adjusted for height, because if the light is too far away the plants stretch and get leggy in order to get more light. I gradually moved the lights higher as the seedlings grew. You will need to keep the seedlings damp and watered which may take 1-2 waterings a day. IMO the seed packets don't stress this enough and if it is too dry it can prevent germination. If your basement is below 60-65 degrees you may have to have heating pads (special for germination) under them. You may want to place your seedlings near your furnace. If you are lucky enough to have windows with a southern exposure which will get sun and if you have the room, you may be able to germinate your plants by the windows instead of using the lights.

    I had the most success with a germination method using 'soil blocks'. You don't have to do this but I love it. You make blocks out of soil and there is no pot. Water is kept in the bottom of the seed tray and they are always moist. If you want to know more about that, it is fully explained in Eliot Coleman's book on organic growing (mentioned below). You can always use the 99 cent kits they sell at Home Depot.

    I gardened with a method called "Square foot gardening". This is a method by which plants are grown close together in order to get the most production from the smallest space. This used to be a TV show on PBS (which I never saw). There is a book by this title which can be purchased that taught me everything I needed to get started. The typical way of doing a skinny row of veggies or herbs is really wasting space and also a waste of water, and leaves more to weed.

    I also learned a lot by watching reruns of the TV show by Barbara Damrosch and Eliot Coleman called "Gardening Naturally". My public library also has these videos. Sometimes it is nice to see things in action rather than just read about these. If you can watch these, I recommend it. The books I mention are more important, but see if you can watch these videos if that idea appeals to you.

    Also helpful are the old episodes of the PBS show "Victory Garden". Perhaps your library has these videos to borrow. These are not necessary but are interesting and inspiring.

    I learned even more by reading Eliot Coleman's books "The New Organic Grower" and "The Four Season Harvest". These books probably will provide you with way more information than you need. However I found some information invaluable which is not covered in other books. The "Four Season Harvest" book actually tells how to grow year round, even in northern climates (they live in Maine), by using something called a cold frame, which you can make out of old windows or doors and some wood (or you can buy fancy factory made ones). They have a newer book out about just gardening in winter which I have not read.

    The most helpful guide for identifying bugs and other garden problems is (!!) the free mail order paper catalog for Gardens Alive! They put out many catalogs a year and within the pages are full color photos of pests and plant diseases. I recommend getting on their mailing list. They also have coupons in the late winter and spring such as "$25 off your order" and that applies even if your order is $25 or less! This company sells things to help garden organically for veggies, flowers, herbs, grass/lawn and even fruit trees. If you are interested they also sell some great grass seed which grows roots down to 4 feet which requires less watering.

    IMO it is pretty easy to grow veggies and herbs. The easiest method for me was when I used plastic as a mulch, which prevented growth of weeds. It isn't as pretty as plain dirt but the weeding is way less. I felt that it was an environmental trade off to use the plastic sheeting (and also I reused it the next year) than to waste water by evaporation or to use chemicals to prevent the growth of weeds. Special red colored plastic was shown to increase yields of tomato plants. You can also use black garbage bags which you cut up. The dark color also helps retain heat in the soil and helps the plant grow faster. If you have the time and energy to weed daily then by all means don't use plastic mulch and do your weeding. (I also had tried 4 inches of bark mulch instead but this was not as effective.)

    I also watered with a soaker hose only as watering by sprinkler actually wastes water as much is lost by evaporation and making the leaves and stems wet increases the chance of mildews and other plant diseases from developing. I ran a regular hose from the faucet out to the garden. I then ran the soaker hose in and around the plants, at 18" apart from each other, so when it is used, all the soil gets soaked. The soaker hose is kept on for longer, such as 4-6 hours at a time (but hardly any water is coming out/getting used). I bought a timer from Home Depot to do this as it was more convenient than remembering to turn it on and off. The watering lengh of time will vary depending on your climate. I also did it every other day (and the timer was set for that) but again this will vary depending on your climate. I ran the soaker hose under the plastic mulch. To pin the plastic mulch down and also to pin the hose into place I cut wire clothes hangers that we had tons from the dry cleaners. Companies sell thicker ones that are expensive if you prefer to spend your money that way. I just snipped the clothes hanger with a wire cutter and one hanger made 2 U-shaped things and I pinned the hose and plastic in place with that.

    Fruit trees: My relatives have experience with these. Between seeing their experience and reading, I learned enough to decide against owning fruit trees. (I also grew up with fruit trees in my yard and the fruit was not good but we suffered with rotting fruit falling down in the lawn and attracting loads of stinging wasps and bees, and was given the horrible childhood chore of picking rotten fruit up off the ground.) Newbies should know that these trees usually are prone to various diseases or get bugs or worms in the fruits. Most people use chemicals to prevent this, which is costly and is not desirable for those seeking organic methods. Nets also may have to be used to keep the birds from eating parts of the fruit and ruining the harvest (and adding to the cost of growing our own fruit). Organic methods are available, research these before investing in trees. I also am under the impression that it takes a few years or more to get the tree big enough to make a decent harvest. Your efforts may lie more in concentrating on berries and/or veggies and herbs.

    Berries: Some varieties bear fruit through the season while others produce all the harvest at once. Choose what you want. Berries may require netting to keep birds from eating the harvest. If you grow blueberries or raspberries you may have to construct a wood frame, big rectangle thing with netting on it in order to protect the harvest. Rabbits love strawberries. Think and learn about the possible critters that live in your area and what they may want to eat and how you can prevent it. There are books in most libraries about this topic. There is nothing like the taste of a homegrown strawberry!

    Tomatoes: research sturdy supports for climbing varities. The typical tomato supports were not good enough for my heavy plants. Vining varieties will produce more tomatoes than bush varieties. Some varities produce tomatoes throughout the season while others bear it all at once. To get the most out of your garden I'd advise to grow vining varieties, grow with upright supports (instead of letting them grow over the ground) and choose varieties which are indeterminate (produce fruit throughout the season). (All this is explained in the "Square foot gardening" book. Determinate means they produce their fruit all at once. Also if you want a load of fruit, consider growing some cherry tomatoes which yield a lot more than the large tomatoes, I have had great luck with 'Sweet Million' variety (and they taste delicious).

    Oh, this is a neat thing I did for two years. I used a living mulch of radishes under and around all my veggie plants. In a few weeks they are harvested and you eat them, and replant more.

    Lettuce: If you like mesclun varieites you can grow it in full boxes such as 4x4 foot boxes, the entire thing is a growing bed of lettuce. I'd snip off what I needed daily, down to about 1 inch, then it regrows. You can do this starting in the early spring through the middle of summer, then repeat at end of summer through the fall. If you use winter gardening techniques with a cold frame you can do this all winter. You really get a lot more lettuce by doing it this way then by growing full heads of romaine or other heads of lettuce.

    Lastly, grow what you really want and will use.

    Note: fun things like pumpkins and gourds take up loads of space. If your goal is to grow food to eat and to get the most yield for your space, avoid these.

    Corn is also iffy in most regions, and may not be worth it using the space to grow it in. You may be better off sticking with more nutritious veggies or buying corn from local garden stands while it is in season.

    I am not an expert but if you post any questions I will try and answer them. Also I bet there are websites for organic gardening with chat forums that may also help you.

    Of all the magazines for gardening I found Organic Gardening to be most helpful for organic gardening of edible plants. Some/most of the gardening magazines are about flowers or ornamentals only, or may not support organic methods.

    This is pretty basic but I will throw in that your gardening location will need 8 hours of sun in the summer months. It should not be under trees or near tree roots. A southern exposure is best. A slight slope going downward and facing the south is the absolute best for yields. Also with the square food gardening method you will see that you build your garden up with new soil rather than digging down into existing soil (which is more work and may be in more poor quality soil).

    I would advise starting a garden this spring if you want to grow for food to use if the pandemic hits. There are things you will learn only by experience. I advise to start growing this year so you can make amendments to your plans for future years.

    I am going to post this also with the book links over at my blog at www.thethinkingmother.blogspot.com
    I don't see that it is against the rules so I will say that if this post has been helpful and you wish to buy any of these books please consider buying them from my blog's Amazon link as the income from my commission from that is our family's only source of income right now. I have no affiliation with the seed and gardening supply companies that I mentioned.
    Happy Gardening. ChristineMM
    Last edited by sharon sanders; January 15, 2007, 04:06 AM.

  • #2
    Re: Gardening (LONG), starting a new garden, teaching self to garden

    Absolutely fabulous post. Thank you very much.

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    • #3
      Re: Gardening (LONG), starting a new garden, teaching self to garden

      Nice job, ChristineMM! Your post is chock full of useful information. Thanks. I look forward to information on composting.

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      • #4
        Re: Gardening (LONG), starting a new garden, teaching self to garden

        ChristineMM your post was very enjoyable, thank you.

        I have been using the raised beds with a width of 1.2 meters (4 feet) and as long as possible ( 4-5 meters). I mulch with pea straw which I buy in during the autunm when it is at it's cheapest.

        I have never used spacing between rows instead I just stick to spacing between plants. I have been trying to space the plants a little closer together than suggested on the packet. It seems that in general the plants can be spaced 3-5 cm closer than recommended.

        To use the space between the beds I grow herbs in pots, which can be moved easily if neccessary.

        In order to grow space hungry pumpkin I train the plant to grow behind the shed which is otherwise unused space. Runners that try to grow in the wrong direction need to be trained in the correct direction or cut off.

        Cucumber is trained up a wire netting fence. The fence needs to be 1 meter tall.

        To make more use of the the space that corn requires I grow runner beans up the corn. This year is the first time I have tried it and have found it very successful.

        The idea of a living radish mulch is good, I will try it next year

        I was wondering, what spacing you used for your mesculen mix? Also what do you have in your mesculan mix? I have mizuna, cos and rocket in mine but would like to expand this range.

        Comment


        • #5
          mesclun lettuce spacing

          AnneZ, I didn't space the lettuce. I used 4x4 foot raised beds in square boxes for support on the sides. I used a mesclun seed mix from Cooks Garden. I scattered the seed with my hand and it grew thickly, like a carpet. You could also make up your own custom mesclun mix by mixing together different varieties of your favorite lettuces.
          I was able to get 3 or 4 servings out of each plant, before the summer got too hot and the plants went to seed. I would go in sections, taking out squares of the lettuce. I usually only cut what I would eat at that meat.
          There is nothing comparable to fresh, buttery lettuce right out of the garden.
          Writing about gardening today is making me want to get back into gardening! Darn the deer that live here!!
          One could also use the cold frames to grow lettuce in, and this would allow gardening all year round.
          ChristineMM
          Last edited by Sally Furniss; June 25, 2006, 06:28 AM.

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          • #6
            Re: Gardening (LONG), starting a new garden, teaching self to garden

            Thank you ChristineMM.
            I see a perfect place in the garden to try your mesclun carpet idea.
            I have an old compost bin frame (1 meter square and 15cm high) that I will use as a box. If the meslun carpet survives until winter then I will find some way to cover it.

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            • #7
              Re: Gardening (LONG), starting a new garden, teaching self to garden

              Thank you for the post. It has encouraged me to get into gardening again. The squre foot method looks like it's a good fit with my very limited time to devote to a garden. What do you recommend to build raised beds with and what should I line the bottom with to preven gophers ? Also, where in the USA is everybody getting their seed ? I could do the local Lowes, but I'm sure there are better places out there.
              The Mad Monk

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              • #8
                making raised beds, layout of square foot garden

                I used non-pressure treated wood 12 inches high x 4 feet long. Nailed at corners to make a 4x4 raised bed. I did not do it but would do it next time...can staple hardware cloth (wire mesh) to the bottom to prevent critters from coming up from underneath and eating the roots (they could still burrow down from the top).

                (Pressure treated wood contains arsenic which some or many feel is dangerous to use with edibles as the arsenic is supposed to leach into the soil.)

                When I had my garden I did 9 beds, 3 rows of 3 with walking paths in the middle which I think were 18 inches wide. For the paths I first put landscape cloth down to try and prevent weed growth. Then I used thick, free wood mulch from the town landfill to line the paths. This is chipped wood and bark scraps from branches that residents throw away at the landfill. The garden was not next to my house so I didn't worry about using the wood mulch (which can draw termites or carpenter ants and which you want to keep away from touching your house or being too close to your house or foundation).

                When I had my garden I installed those metal fence poles around it and used deer fencing (a special plastic mesh). I buried the deer fencing about eight inches down. This kept the woodchucks and rabbits out. To make a door I did the easy method which was to hook the fencing to the fence post and then unhook it and let myself in. If I was handier I would have fashioned a proper gate.

                I also had an 18 inch bed around the outside border of my garden in which I planted annual flowers such as sunflowers and zinnias, and vines such as morning glory. These grew up to five feet high and covered the fencing in the summer and provided wonderful cut flowers. You could also grow beans there or other edibles if you don't mind risking that critters could get at them, outside the fence.
                HTH, ChrisitneMM

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Gardening (LONG), starting a new garden, teaching self to garden

                  I have used a variation on square foot gardening for my suburban home . I used those stacking curved bricks that are used for short retainer walls . ( no need for cement as they have a lip on them that grabs the lower level of bricks . ) it is 7ft x 2 ft and curved at the ends ( because the stone walls are curved) instead of using the frame thingy that lays on the top of the soil in sfg I used a border that actually goes about 4 inches below ground ... I made my grid to work for me . even though it is 2 feet wide I made three rows by 5 rows ... and then the curved ends are larger areas . so there are 17 sections in total . on the curved end sections I have spinach / asparagus/ various lettuces and along the edge I have violas and parsley .

                  in the main sections I have various herbs : mexican Mint Marigold/ pineapple sage/ lemon balm/ Fr lavender/ anise hyssop/ sage

                  I also have veggies: onion sets / garlic/ peas/

                  I will be adding basil / lemon thyme / thyme vulgaris/ oregano & for veggies : roma tomatoes / runner beans / anaheim peppers/ bell peppers

                  also in elevated containers : as a backdrop for the bed I have various mints/ oregano / winter savory and other things that look nice hanging down in a pot .

                  my rosemary is in a large pot by my door --- looks like a mini Christmas tree. I have started cherry cordon type tomatoes in a container and more green chile ...

                  strawberries in a large pot also .

                  planted here & there along the border in the raised bed are Italian parsley / salad burnet/ curly parsley/ marigolds etc .

                  I am thinking about getting a few large junky 5 gal buckets and trying to find a way to cut out the bottoms so that they are only a ring . I would like to use them to grow potatoes / more runner beans / large tomatoes / bush cucumbers in an out of the way place .


                  getting ready to plant a dessert grape vine as soon as I figure out where to put it --- I hate wasps.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Gardening (LONG), starting a new garden, teaching self to garden

                    if you start seedlings indoors, one tip I've found very helpful is to use a double light flouescent fixture- with one warm and one cool white light bulb. less than half the price of "gro lights" but provides close to full spectrum. remember to put the light fixture on a chain, or figure another way to keep it about 3-4 inches from the tops of the seedlings as they grow, so they arent "leggy".
                    Upon this gifted age, in its dark hour,
                    Rains from the sky a meteoric shower
                    Of facts....They lie unquestioned, uncombined.
                    Wisdom enough to leech us of our ill
                    Is daily spun, but there exists no loom
                    To weave it into fabric..
                    Edna St. Vincent Millay "Huntsman, What Quarry"
                    All my posts to this forum are for fair use and educational purposes only.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Gardening (LONG), starting a new garden, teaching self to garden

                      Rasputin, look on this new thread for seed info:

                      http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1578

                      ChristineMM do you have any suggestions?

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                      • #12
                        Re: Gardening (LONG), starting a new garden, teaching self to garden

                        I only use heirloom seeds. I keep them from year to year.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Gardening (LONG), starting a new garden, teaching self to garden

                          What is the advantage of using raised beds? Thanks1

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Gardening (LONG), starting a new garden, teaching self to garden

                            theres a good thread here about that:



                            but the quick answer is better drainage, no walking thereby compressing the soil, means that the plants have a better growing medium (compressed soil interferes with rapid and healthy root development) and conservation of resources- both space, time and materials are reduced, and you put water, fertilizer etc only in the beds where the plants grow, instead of through the whole garden area. That can be a substantial savings. I also find it saves me time and effort- I can produce more in less time, with less input, and better results IME.
                            Upon this gifted age, in its dark hour,
                            Rains from the sky a meteoric shower
                            Of facts....They lie unquestioned, uncombined.
                            Wisdom enough to leech us of our ill
                            Is daily spun, but there exists no loom
                            To weave it into fabric..
                            Edna St. Vincent Millay "Huntsman, What Quarry"
                            All my posts to this forum are for fair use and educational purposes only.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Gardening (LONG), starting a new garden, teaching self to garden

                              Originally posted by teestorm
                              .
                              I am thinking about getting a few large junky 5 gal buckets and trying to find a way to cut out the bottoms so that they are only a ring . I would like to use them to grow potatoes / more runner beans / large tomatoes / bush cucumbers in an out of the way place .
                              When a new house is being built it is often possible to get pipe off-cuts from the dumpster or just ask the workmen there. I have pipe off-cuts that are about 2 feet across and 2 feet high.

                              Comment

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