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  • #16
    Re: H5N1 suspected in dead swans in Germany

    Bottom line is without an increase in H5N1 levels, FALSE negatives rule in wild bird tests
    Is this saying there are chronic or long term shedders or that the testing is more difficult to perform in H5 Strains?

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    • #17
      Re: H5N1 suspected in dead swans in Germany

      Several cases of H5N1 bird flu found in southern Germany in first cases this year

      The Associated Press

      Published: June 23, 2007

      BERLIN: Authorities posted caution signs around two Bavarian lakes on Saturday after seven dead birds tested positive for the H5N1 bird flu virus, the first cases reported in Germany this year.

      Nürnberg city authorities warned people to keep their dogs leashed and stay away from waterfowl after five swans, one duck and one goose all tested positive for H5N1.

      The Consumer Affairs Ministry confirmed these as the first bird flu cases reported in Germany this year, and said the results of further tests were expected within a few days.

      The additional tests were being done by the Friedrich-Loeffler Institut, which has dealt with most of Germany's previous H5N1 cases.

      Last year, 13 EU nations were hit by bird flu — Austria, Denmark, Poland, Italy, Greece, Britain, Germany, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Sweden, Hungary and France.

      Bird flu was reported earlier this month in the Czech Republic and also surfaced elsewhere in the European Union earlier this year.

      It is believed to spread along bird migration routes. The H5N1 strain has decimated poultry stocks since 2003 and killed at least 191 people worldwide, most of them directly infected by sick birds in Asia. Experts fear, however, that the virus could mutate into a form easily transmitted between people.

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      • #18
        Re: H5N1 suspected in dead swans in Germany

        Originally posted by Gänseerpel View Post
        Is this saying there are chronic or long term shedders or that the testing is more difficult to perform in H5 Strains?
        The problem is with Qinghai H5N1, which is higher in throat swabs (usually cloacal swabs are collected).

        In the recent PNAS report from China, only one of 414 HA sequences was Qinghai. Detection takes some effort, or something to cause the levels to rise. When birds die, the levels are high enough for detection. When alive the H5N1 speads below the radar, and now, in the summer, it is spilling over into dead wild birds in Germany, dead poultry in the Czech Republic (as well as poultry in Ghana and Togo), and patients in Egypt.

        The surveillance program is a farce, used to keep the general public "controled", so they don't panic.

        H5N1 doesn't read press releases. It is evolving and spreading, as Ilaria Capua declares wild birds free from H5N1 infections (on Wednesday at bthe Options VI flu conference). The foxes are guarding the hen houses, and the "surprises" just keep on coming.

        H5N1 in the summer in the heart of western Europe is just one of many surprises (which were glaringly obvious based on the presentations in Toronto).
        Last edited by HenryN; June 23, 2007, 06:28 PM.

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        • #19
          Re: H5N1 suspected in dead swans in Germany

          Does it mean we will see this turn up on the major lakes (Geneva,Constanz,Como,etc.) in Europe again?
          Takes on a quite different setting in the summer time..just imagine all the leisure activities on and around water!

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          • #20
            Re: H5N1 suspected in dead swans in Germany

            Commentary at

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: H5N1 suspected in dead swans in Germany

              Originally posted by louis View Post
              Does it mean we will see this turn up on the major lakes (Geneva,Constanz,Como,etc.) in Europe again?
              Takes on a quite different setting in the summer time..just imagine all the leisure activities on and around water!
              H5N1 is all over Europe, but probably highest in Germany, Italy, and the Czech Republic.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: H5N1 suspected in dead swans in Germany

                The problem is with Qinghai H5N1, which is higher in throat swabs (usually cloacal swabs are collected).

                In the recent PNAS report from China, only one of 414 HA sequences was Qinghai. Detection takes some effort, or something to cause the levels to rise. When birds die, the levels are high enough fopr detection. When alive the H5N1 speads below the radar, and now, in the summer, it is spilling over into dead wild birds in Germany, dead poultry in the Czech Republic (as well as poultry in Ghana and Togo), and patients in Egypt.

                The surveillance program is a farce, used to keep the general public "controled", so they don't panic.

                H5N1 doesn't reda press releases. It is evoling and spreading, as Ilaria Capua declares wild birds free from H5N1 infections (on Wednesday at bthe Options VI flu conference). The foxes are guarding the hen houses, and the "surprises" just keep on coming.

                H5N1 in the summer in the heart of western Europe is just one of many surprises (which were glaringly obvious based on the presentations in Toronto).
                Based on the results of experimental studies in waterfowl, oral virus shedding is in the order of 1 to 5 log<SUB>10</SUB> EID<SUB>50</SUB>/mL average maximum titer (typically between 2 and 4 log<SUB>10</SUB> EID<SUB>50</SUB>/mL); about 1 - 4 log<SUB>10</SUB> EID<SUB>50</SUB>/mL for cloacal swabs, including data from non symptomatic birds.

                The minimal detectable virus titers using virus isolation in embryonated chicken Eggs are about 10 x EID 50 from swabs and 10<SUP>2</SUP> x EID<SUB>50 </SUB>from tissues.

                We are talking about AMt's, but given that virus shedding takes place in the order of 1 to 10 days p.i., exceptionally 20 days, I can`t see a major methodical problem to identify viral pathogen.

                Contrary to rumor HPAI strains normally do replicate in embryonated eggs to sufficient titers

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: H5N1 suspected in dead swans in Germany

                  Originally posted by niman View Post
                  H5N1 is all over Europe, but probably highest in Germany, Italy, and the Czech Republic.

                  Russia,Ukraine,Romania

                  lots of countries in Europe...
                  I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
                  my current links: http://bit.ly/hFI7H ILI-charts: http://bit.ly/CcRgT

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: H5N1 suspected in dead swans in Germany

                    Originally posted by G&#228;nseerpel View Post
                    Based on the results of experimental studies in waterfowl, oral virus shedding is in the order of 1 to 5 log<SUB>10</SUB> EID<SUB>50</SUB>/mL average maximum titer (typically between 2 and 4 log<SUB>10</SUB> EID<SUB>50</SUB>/mL); about 1 - 4 log<SUB>10</SUB> EID<SUB>50</SUB>/mL for cloacal swabs, including data from non symptomatic birds.

                    The minimal detectable virus titers using virus isolation in embryonated chicken Eggs are about 10 x EID 50 from swabs and 10<SUP>2</SUP> x EID<SUB>50 </SUB>from tissues.

                    We are talking about AMt's, but given that virus shedding takes place in the order of 1 to 10 days p.i., exceptionally 20 days, I can`t see a major methodical problem to identify viral pathogen.

                    Contrary to rumor HPAI strains normally do replicate in embryonated eggs to sufficient titers
                    For Qinghai H5N1, throat swabs are typically higher than claoacal swabs.

                    Even in February, 2006 when Qinghai H5N1 was widely detected in dead wild birds, the number of positives in live wild birds in western Europe was (and is) ZERO.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: H5N1 suspected in dead swans in Germany

                      Originally posted by gsgs View Post
                      Russia,Ukraine,Romania

                      lots of countries in Europe...
                      H5N1 doesn't recognized national boundries. It is all over WESTERN Europe.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: H5N1 suspected in dead swans in Germany

                        Online translation:

                        Nuernberg (aho) - the national office for health and food security (LGL) in attaining determined an infection with the H5N1-Virus on today's Saturday, 23 June 2007, with further dead found water birds. Thereby a wildente, which ended at the Woehrder lake, concerns and a game goose around three further swans and, which was found dead at the silver lake. Altogether now city exists game birds guaranteed an infection with the "bird flu virus" with seven in the Nuernberger. The city Nuernberg and the veterinary centre Fuerth will furnish a restricted area as precautionary measure around the areas concerned and will prove the Nuernberger city as observation area. The Kadaver was sent to the national reference laboratory of the Friedrich Loeffler institute on the island Riems, in order to determine whether it concerns with the exciter the highly pathogene H5N1-Virus. The city Nuernberg and the veterinary centre Fuerth seized measures, which are intended after the game bird poultry plague protection regulation due to the further finds. At waters concerned warnings were set up. The environment is checked regularly for game birds ended. A restricted area is furnished by four kilometers of radius and an observation zone of ten kilometers of radius around the discovery sites and marked by describing.
                        The course of the border of the restricted area is along the roads at the zoo, to the climbing field, deer yard route, in the Weller, Bacher road, Olgastrasse, B14, Guenthersbuehler road, Native of Bayreuth road, beer way, Marienbergstrasse, Erlanger road, northwest ring B4R, Nopitschstrasse, elm tree road, Franconia route, Katzwangerstrasse, Julius release man route, Trierer road, customs office road, Breslauer road, Regensburger road. In the restricted area (4 km) long the prohibition of spending from poultry and in shank the animal by-products from bird attitudes, the prohibition of spending poultry, in shank birds held of other kinds and breeding eggs from a bird attitude, fresh meat, hackfleisch or separator meat, butcher certifications and meat preparing of poultry, in shank birds held of other kinds or of feather/spring game from the restricted area, coming, applies for birds held of other kinds starting from 23 June 2007 21 days. This does not apply to meat and meat preparing, which were transferred in the retail trade to consumers.


                        Keepers of an animal are committed to mats or other absorbent soil editions to the sicherstellung that at the in and exits of the stables or other locations, in or at which poultry is held are laid out and these with an effective disinfectant are soaked and with it kept damp always. In shank birds held of other kinds may not be released for the heightening of the game existence. Feather/spring game may be hunted only with permission of the city Nuernberg. Within restricted area convenient stable or other location, in which or at the poultry one holds, may not be entered by non-operating persons. This does not apply to the stable or other locations for caring for veterinary surgeon, its respective auxiliary persons as well as persons of the responsible authority the assigned the animal you fight.


                        Dogs and cats Dogs and cats may not run around in the restricted area freely. The owners have to guarantee this at any time. Offences against these regulations can be punished as irregularities with fine. In the observation area (radius of 10 kilometers) applies to the duration from 30 days to definition of the observation area: In shank birds held of other kinds may not be released for the heightening of the game existence. For the duration of 30 days feather/spring game may be hunted only with permission of the city Nuernberg. While the first 15 days after definition of the observation area poultry and in shank birds held of other kinds may be spent not from the observation area.
                        Dogs and cats In the observation area dogs and cats may run around freely. Public health authorities point out expressly that it concerns with the "bird flu" an animal epidemic. Under normal conditions humans infect themselves only extremely rarely with bird flu viruses. Birds concerned separate the viruses with body secretions, most highly are the concentration in the excrement humans can the exciter by inhalation of excrement-contaminated dust particle or by a lubrication infection over the hands take up. During most human illnesses, which arose mainly in Asia, so far only persons with very close contact were concerned to infected house poultry. In order to reduce the infection risk nevertheless to a minimum, no water birds should be touched or fed as precautionary measure. In green belts feeding of fish and water birds is anyway forbidden after the green belt statute. Also dog owners are urgently reminded of the Anleinpflicht.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: H5N1 suspected in dead swans in Germany

                          Originally posted by niman View Post
                          H5N1 doesn't recognized national boundries. It is all over WESTERN Europe.

                          why western Europe ? most cases had been in Eastern Europe.
                          Surveillance is worse in eastern Europe.
                          It comes from east (Siberia)
                          I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
                          my current links: http://bit.ly/hFI7H ILI-charts: http://bit.ly/CcRgT

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: H5N1 suspected in dead swans in Germany

                            Originally posted by gsgs View Post
                            why western Europe ? most cases had been in Eastern Europe.
                            Surveillance is worse in eastern Europe.
                            It comes from east (Siberia)
                            Western Europe and Eastern Europe. The healthy teal with H5N1 isolated in Egypt in Dec, 2005 was most like H5N1 from Austria, yet NO country in western Europe reported H5N1 infections until 2006.

                            The surveillance in western Europe is largely for political consumption.

                            No H5N1 in western Europe in 2005 (but 2006 sequences show MULTIPLE introductions)?

                            Please.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: H5N1 suspected in dead swans in Germany

                              Originally posted by gsgs View Post
                              why western Europe ? most cases had been in Eastern Europe.
                              Surveillance is worse in eastern Europe.
                              It comes from east (Siberia)
                              It comes from the east in the FALL (not winter of 2006 or summer of 2007).

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: H5N1 suspected in dead swans in Germany

                                TRanslated:

                                Bird flu in Nuremberg



                                <TABLE class=rpictab width=191><TBODY><TR><TH></TH></TR><TR><TD><CENTER>Bird flu in Nuremberg ?ddp</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>23.06.2007 18:33: 40 - After the occurance of of several cases of bird flu in Nuremberg arranges
                                the city a restricted area. After investigations of the national office
                                for health and food security assists in the meantime
                                altogether seven water birds firmly that it itself with that
                                H5N1-Erreger infected, like the director/conductor of the office for order,
                                Hubertus Nerlich, on Saturday on strip packing-inquires said.
                                </B>


                                Nuremberg (strip packing bay). After the occurance of of several cases of bird flu in Nuremberg the city furnishes a restricted area. After investigations of the national office for health and food security in the meantime Hubertus Nerlich is certain, on Saturday on strip packing-inquires said with altogether seven water birds that they infected themselves with the H5N1-Erreger, like the director/conductor of the office for order.
                                Beside two swans, which were dead found on past Tuesday at the W?hrder lake, concern it with the animals concerned a duck, a goose and three further swans. , Whether it concerns with the virus the particularly dangerous variant, still said Nerlich is unclear. The Kadaver was sent to more exact investigations to the Friedrich L?ffler institute on the island Riems. Final results are to be expected at the earliest Sunday afternoon.
                                In the restricted area 21 days apply long in a radius of approximately four kilometers around the W?hrder lake special regulations to poultry owners, in addition dogs at the line are to be led. This happens as a precaution, in order to prevent a transmission of the exciter on utilizable poultry, avowed Nerlich.
                                (strip packing)

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