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  #1  
Old May 24th, 2007, 06:16 AM
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Chicken Bird flu outbreak in North Wales: H7N2

BREAKING NEWS - Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales



24/05/07 10:15am - Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales.




REPORTS of a Bird Flu outbreak in North Wales are being investigated by the Welsh Assembly this morning.


A spokesman for the Assembly confirmed that an investigation on a bird is ongoing but their inquiries are not yet finished.

A spokesman for Denbighshire Council said: "We are aware of the situation and are working in partnership with the various government agencies to resolve this problem."

A woman, who does not wish to be named, called the Leader this morning and said: "My husband work's for a bird factory in Wrexham and they have just got a warning through about a possible outbreak. It's very worrying."

The probe into the possible outbreak is believed at this stage to centre around the Corwen area.

A Welsh Assembly spokesman added that a press conference would be held at 10.30am in Cardiff regarding the matter.

http://www.eveningleader.co.uk/news?articleid=2902389
Last Updated: 24 May 2007
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  #2  
Old May 24th, 2007, 06:19 AM
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Default Re: Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales.

Bird disease investigation launched in Wales

Thu May 24, 2007 11:10AM BST

LONDON (Reuters) - Authorities are investigating a suspected bird disease outbreak at a farm in north Wales, the Welsh assembly said on Thursday.

"We are investigating a notifiable disease in birds at a location in North Wales. Reports are not confirmed and tests are ongoing," the assembly said in a statement.

A spokesman said the suspected outbreak was at a farm but gave no further details and declined to describe the symptoms of the sick birds or say whether they resembled bird flu.

More information would be released later on Thursday, he said.

Britain has been on the look out for bird disease after Europe's biggest turkey producer Bernard Matthews was forced to destroy 160,000 turkeys because of a bird flu outbreak earlier this year.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/domest...38539120070524
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  #3  
Old May 24th, 2007, 06:20 AM
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Default Re: Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales.

Bird flu fears as dead birds are tested

May 24 2007


Tests were being carried out for possible bird flu on dead birds in north Wales today.

Deliveries to an unnamed country estate in rural Denbighshire were being turned away, the Daily Post website said.

A Welsh Assembly Government spokeswoman said: "We are investigating a notifiable disease in birds at a location in north Wales. Reports are not confirmed and tests are ongoing."

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100n...name_page.html
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  #4  
Old May 24th, 2007, 06:47 AM
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Default Re: Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchy View Post
Bird flu fears as dead birds are tested

May 24 2007


Tests were being carried out for possible bird flu on dead birds in north Wales today.

Deliveries to an unnamed country estate in rural Denbighshire were being turned away, the Daily Post website said.

A Welsh Assembly Government spokeswoman said: "We are investigating a notifiable disease in birds at a location in north Wales. Reports are not confirmed and tests are ongoing."

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100n...name_page.html
Both H5 and H7 are notifiable diseases.
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  #5  
Old May 24th, 2007, 07:08 AM
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Default Re: Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales.

Dead birds investigated in Wales

Thursday, 24 May 2007 11:44


Medical experts are investigating a number of bird deaths in north Wales amid fears about an avian flu outbreak.

The Welsh Assembly has confirmed that it has received reports about a notifiable disease in the area and is conducting tests.

It is understood that the location of the alert is a country estate in Denbighshire. The Daily Post newspaper reports the area has been sealed off.

A spokeswoman for the Department for Environment and Rural Affairs (Defra) said further information would be released by the Welsh Assembly later today.

She added that the tests were "ongoing" but stressed that it can take a substantial period of time before the results of the investigation were available.

It has not been confirmed whether bird flu is suspected.

http://www.inthenews.co.uk/news/health/dead-birds-investigated-in-wales-$1088415.htm
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  #6  
Old May 24th, 2007, 07:37 AM
vinny vinny is offline
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Default Re: Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales.

is this wild birds i wonder or another case of imported meat.
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  #7  
Old May 24th, 2007, 08:00 AM
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Default Re: Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinny View Post
is this wild birds i wonder or another case of imported meat.
There has been ONE example of H5N1 infections due to imports from a distance, and hundreds due to migratory birds. The odds are heavily stacked.
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  #8  
Old May 24th, 2007, 08:17 AM
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Default Re: Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales.

May 24, 2007


Vets testing for bird flu in North Wales



Times Online


Vets are testing for signs of bird flu at a farm in North Wales, the Welsh Assembly said today.
“We are investigating a notifiable disease in birds at a location in North Wales. Reports are not confirmed and tests are ongoing,” the assembly said in a statement.
A spokeswoman declined to confirm reports that the farm was on a country estate in rural Denbighshire and that vehicles were being turned away from the site.
Wales's chief veterinary officer, Dr Christianne Glossop, is expected to make a statement on the investigation at lunchtime and a spokeswoman for the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) said that it would be clear by then whether the lethal H5N1 strain had been found.

The Defra spokeswoman added that the alarm had been raised in the last few hours. "This is an ongoing investigation," she said. "Nothing has actually been confirmed at this stage."
A spokeswoman for the Health Protectionm Agency said that possible human risks from the outbreak were being handled by the National Public Health Service for Wales, which said it was preparing to make a statement in coming hours.
Authorities have been on the lookout for bird flu since vets were forced to cull 160,000 turkeys at a Bernard Matthews plant in Suffolk in February. Although primarily an avian disease, the virus has managed to infect humans in close contact with diseased birds, raising fears that if it were to mutate to become more easily catchable, it could be become a global pandemic.
The World Health Organisation says the deadly H5N1 strain of bird flu has infected at least 282 people and killed around 170 of them, mostly in south-east Asia, since the end of 2003. Indonesia has suffered the most deaths, with 75 people succumbing to the disease.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1834739.ece
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  #9  
Old May 24th, 2007, 08:21 AM
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Default Re: Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by niman View Post
May 24, 2007


Vets testing for bird flu in North Wales



The Defra spokeswoman added that the alarm had been raised in the last few hours. "This is an ongoing investigation," she said. "Nothing has actually been confirmed at this stage."
A spokeswoman for the Health Protectionm Agency said that possible human risks from the outbreak were being handled by the National Public Health Service for Wales, which said it was preparing to make a statement in coming hours.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1834739.ece
Generally, when the phrase "nothing has been CONFIMED" is used, the host has already tested positive and an announcement is made after the initial positives are confirmed.

I would put H5N1 into the VERY likely category.
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  #10  
Old May 24th, 2007, 08:25 AM
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Default Re: Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales.

Scientists test for bird flu on Welsh farm



James Orr and agencies
Thursday May 24, 2007
Guardian Unlimited



Tests for a possible outbreak of bird flu were ongoing at a country estate in north Wales, government officials revealed today.
Deliveries to the unnamed farm in Denbighshire were being turned away as scientists completed their work.
A spokeswoman for the Welsh assembly said reports of an outbreak were not yet confirmed but that a full briefing on developments would take place later. She said: "We are investigating a notifiable disease in birds at a location in north Wales. Reports are not confirmed and tests are ongoing."

The most recent instance of an outbreak of the potentially deadly H5N1 bird flu virus in the UK occurred at a Bernard Matthews turkey farm in Suffolk in February.

Concerns over the possible spread of the disease led to some 159,000 healthy turkeys at the plant in Holton being slaughtered.
A report into the incident, published by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, failed to uncover any proven source of the virus outbreak.
But experts at the Veterinary Laboratory Agency found that there was a 99.96% genetic similarity between the strain of the virus found at the plant and a strain that infected geese in southern Hungary last year.
In October 2005, Dr Christianne Glossop, Wales's chief vet, confirmed that Wales had a detailed contingency plan in place in case of an outbreak.
She was speaking as tests in Romania confirmed a strain of flu potentially fatal to humans.
"We know exactly how we would manage everything, from the name of the operations director all the way down to who does what and where, so we are ready for an outbreak," she explained at the time.
"One of the difficulties here is that we can't protect ourselves from wild birds flying into Britain and so that avenue of protection is not open to us."
Since the outbreak in Suffolk, thousands of people working with poultry in Britain have been offered winter flu vaccinations in an attempt to avoid a pandemic strain taking hold.
The £500,000 initiative has identified 60,000 people who work with flocks, on egg or chicken farms, as well as those who slaughter birds, or clean or handle dead birds in the meat production industry. A Welsh assembly spokeswoman today confirmed that Dr Glossop would be speaking at a briefing this afternoon, accompanied by a senior medical officer.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/birdflu/st...d=networkfront
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  #11  
Old May 24th, 2007, 08:28 AM
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Default Re: Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by niman View Post
Scientists test for bird flu on Welsh farm



A Welsh assembly spokeswoman today confirmed that Dr Glossop would be speaking at a briefing this afternoon, accompanied by a senior medical officer.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/birdflu/st...d=networkfront
H5N1 is flashing bright red.
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  #12  
Old May 24th, 2007, 08:30 AM
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Default Re: Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales.

Vets to confirm whether bird tests in Wales are for avian flu
24/05/2007 12:49:00
Website EAS

Tests are being carried out for a "notifiable disease in birds" in north Wales, the Welsh Assembly has announced.

A statement issued by the assembly said: "Reports are not confirmed and tests are ongoing."

There are no details yet of the exact location nor is there any confirmation that the tests are for avian flu.

A news conference will be held at 13:30 on Thursday 24 May. The BBC is reporting that it will be announced that the tests are for avian flu, but not for the virulent H5N1 strain.

http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/2007/0...avian-flu.html
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  #13  
Old May 24th, 2007, 08:31 AM
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Default Re: Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales.

Tests for 'bird disease' at farm
Tests are being carried out for bird disease at a farm in north Wales.

In a statement, the Welsh Assembly Government said: "Reports are not confirmed and tests are ongoing".
The incident began when a private vet, called out to what is believed to be a smallholding in Conwy, notified animal health officials.
It is understood the investigation is into a possible bird flu case but not of the virulent H5N1 strain. A briefing by Wales's chief vet is due later.
The farm is believed to be in the county of Conwy near its border with Denbighshire and near Corwen.
The vet called in Animal Health, which used to be known as the State Veterinary service.
A statement from the assembly government said "a notifiable disease in birds" was being investigated, and Dr Christianne Glossop, Wales's chief vet will give a briefing on Thursday afternoon, accompanied by a senior medical officer.
IIlness
There are various strains of the bird flu virus, with the H5N1 strain posing a risk to human health and other strains including a milder H7 strain.
So far, there have been no confirmed cases of bird flu in Wales.
In February, more than 160,000 birds were slaughtered on a Suffolk farm owned by the Bernard Matthews firm after an outbreak of the virulent H5N1 strain of bird flu.
Avian flu was found there on 3 February and 2,600 turkeys died of it - a further 159,000 birds were then culled.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/wales/6686995.stm


Published: 2007/05/24 12:10:20 GMT
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  #14  
Old May 24th, 2007, 08:57 AM
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Default Re: Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales.

iFlu.org

24 May 2007

Welsh bird flu outbreak not H5N1

the Welsh Assembly has confirmed that the notifiable disease in North Wales is indeed bird flu, but the H7N2 strain and not H5N1.

http://www.iflu.org/?p=27557
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  #15  
Old May 24th, 2007, 08:59 AM
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Default Re: Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales.

Bird Flu Tests Rule Out Deadly Strain

Updated: 13:51, Thursday May 24, 2007

Scientists say a case of birdflu has been confirmed in north Wales but it does not involve the deadly H5N1 strain of the virus.

Dr Christianne Glossop, Wales's chief vet, announced the news to the Welsh Assembly.

Dead birds removedThe tests were carried out on birds at a country estate in rural Denbighshire.

The news will come as a huge relief to the Welsh farming industry.

The deadly H5N1 bird flu strain was detected at a Bernard Matthews plant in Suffolk on February 3.

Nearly 160,000 turkeys were killed in a precautionary cull.

In recent months, UN officials have warned that migrating birds are likely to cause more outbreaks.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...267221,00.html
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  #16  
Old May 24th, 2007, 09:09 AM
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Default Re: Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales: not H5N1

Bird flu found in Wales but not H5N1

Thu May 24, 2007 1:53PM BST


LONDON (Reuters) - Bird flu has been detected in Wales, but not the feared H5N1 strain deadly to humans, Wales's chief veterinarian, Christianne Glossop, said on Thursday.

Earlier, the Welsh Assembly said it was investigating a suspected outbreak of bird disease at a farm in North Wales.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/domest...70524?rpc=401&
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  #17  
Old May 24th, 2007, 09:27 AM
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Default Re: Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales: not H5N1

is this one any danger to humans if not i guess its a false alarm........?.
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  #18  
Old May 24th, 2007, 09:38 AM
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Default Re: Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales: not H5N1

Bird flu case confirmed at farm

A 1km exclusion zone is now in force around the farm

A case of bird flu has been confirmed after the death of chickens at a farm in Conwy.

On Thursday, Wales's chief vet confirmed it was a H7N2 strain of bird flu, not the more virulent H5N1 strain of the virus.

The farm owners purchased 15 Rhode Island Red chickens two weeks ago but all have now died.

Two adults associated with the farm have shown flu symptoms and are being treated as a precaution.

Health officials are stressing that this is a low pathogenic strain and should not cause serious illness in humans.

Other samples from the farm are being tested and the source of the infection is being investigated.

The Wales and GB contingency plans have been implemented and a 1km exclusion zone is now in force around the property.


The small farm is north of the town of Corwen in Denbighshire but lies in the neighbouring county of Conwy.

Samples were first sent for testing on 17 May, before the H7 virus was confirmed.

The 15 new birds were brought onto the farm on 7 May and one bird died on 8 May. By 17 May, 10 of the birds had died.

The vet called in Animal Health, which used to be known as the State Veterinary service, which took samples.

Dr Christianne Glossop, Wales's chief vet, confirmed that the infected birds had died and that the other animals at the site - 30 other birds and two geese - were being slaughtered on Thursday.


The Welsh Assembly Government is investigating the case

"We have no reason to believe it is spreading rapidly," she said.

"While we are taking it very seriously, this is a low pathogenic avian flu," she said.

She said the source of infection was being investigated and urged "all poultry keepers to look out for any unusual signs".

In the exclusion zone, birds and bird products cannot be moved and bird gathering can only take place under licence.

At the moment, Dr Glossop added they were not currently asking bird keepers to bring their birds indoors.

Culled

Routine tests are being carried out on people who work on the farm and anybody else who has been in close contact.

There are various strains of the bird flu virus, with the H5N1 strain posing a risk to human health and other strains including the milder H7 strain.

This is the first confirmed case of bird flu in Wales.

In February, more than 160,000 birds were slaughtered on a Suffolk farm owned by the Bernard Matthews firm after an outbreak of the virulent H5N1 strain of bird flu.

Avian flu was found there on 3 February and 2,600 turkeys died of it - a further 159,000 birds were then culled.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6686995.stm
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  #19  
Old May 24th, 2007, 09:46 AM
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Default Re: Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales: not H5N1

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinny View Post
is this one any danger to humans if not i guess its a false alarm........?.
H7 can be efficiently transmitted to humans, although there has only been one reported fatal case (from 2003 H7N7 outbreak in the Netherlands).
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Old May 24th, 2007, 09:55 AM
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Default Re: Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales.

Thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by niman View Post
Scientists test for bird flu on Welsh farm
But experts at the Veterinary Laboratory Agency found that there was a 99.96% genetic similarity between the strain of the virus found at the plant and a strain that infected geese in southern Hungary last year.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/birdflu/st...d=networkfront
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  #21  
Old May 24th, 2007, 09:58 AM
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Default Re: Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye View Post
Thoughts?
There are no current reported H7N2 outbreaks. This is once again wild birds (undetected by "surveillance" program, as happened last year with H7N3 in England).
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  #22  
Old May 24th, 2007, 09:59 AM
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Default Re: Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales: not H5N1

Bird flu case confirmed at farm
A case of bird flu has been confirmed after the death of chickens at a farm in Conwy.

On Thursday, Wales's chief vet confirmed it was a H7N2 strain of bird flu, not the more virulent H5N1 strain of the virus.
The farm owners purchased 15 Rhode Island Red chickens two weeks ago but all have now died.
Two adults associated with the farm have shown flu symptoms and are being treated as a precaution.
Health officials are stressing that this is a low pathogenic strain and should not cause serious illness in humans.
Other samples from the farm are being tested and the source of the infection is being investigated.
The Wales and GB contingency plans have been implemented and a 1km exclusion zone is now in force around the property.

While we are taking it very seriously, this is a low pathogenic avian flu
Dr Christianne Glossop, Wales's chief vet


The small farm is north of the town of Corwen in Denbighshire but lies in the neighbouring county of Conwy.
Samples were first sent for testing on 17 May, before the H7 virus was confirmed.
The 15 new birds were brought onto the farm on 7 May and one bird died on 8 May. By 17 May, 10 of the birds had died.
The vet called in Animal Health, which used to be known as the State Veterinary service, which took samples.
Dr Christianne Glossop, Wales's chief vet, confirmed that the infected birds had died and that the other animals at the site - 30 other birds and two geese - were being slaughtered on Thursday.


"We have no reason to believe it is spreading rapidly," she said.
"While we are taking it very seriously, this is a low pathogenic avian flu," she said.
She said the source of infection was being investigated and urged "all poultry keepers to look out for any unusual signs".
In the exclusion zone, birds and bird products cannot be moved and bird gathering can only take place under licence.
At the moment, Dr Glossop added they were not currently asking bird keepers to bring their birds indoors.
Culled
Routine tests are being carried out on people who work on the farm and anybody else who has been in close contact.
North Wales AM Brynle Williams said: "I am appealing to all residents in Corwen and nearby to behave calmly, and to let government officials carry out their duties."
There are various strains of the bird flu virus, with the H5N1 strain posing a risk to human health and other strains including the milder H7 strain.
This is the first confirmed case of bird flu in Wales.
In February, more than 160,000 birds were slaughtered on a Suffolk farm owned by the Bernard Matthews firm after an outbreak of the virulent H5N1 strain of bird flu.
Avian flu was found there on 3 February and 2,600 turkeys died of it - a further 159,000 birds were then culled.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/wales/6686995.stm
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  #23  
Old May 24th, 2007, 10:02 AM
HenryN HenryN is offline
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Default Re: Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales: not H5N1

Bird flu is back in UK

By George Reynolds
24/05/2007- Bird flu is back in the UK, following the discovery of the virus on a farm in north Wales, Government officials confirmed today.

Christianne Glossop, Chief Veterinary Officer for Wales, confirmed it was H7N2, a less virulent relative of the HN51 strain.

The 30 remaining birds on the farm have been slaughtered today and the farm employees and any others who have come into close contact are undergoing testing.

Health officials said the low pathogenic strain should not cause serious illness in humans.

Wales and GB contingency plans have now implemented a 1km restriction zone around the infected premises, in which no birds or bird products can be moved. Bird gathering is being permitted under licence.

The Department of Environment, Planning and Countryside (EPC) has asked poultry keepers to observe strict biosecurity measures and report any suspicious signs of a notifiable avian disease to their local Animal Health Divisional Office.

Animal Health officers could not confirm whether the disease was caused by a migratory wild bird or agricultural imports.

In February, a discovery of the HN51 virus on a Suffolk farm, owned by Bernard Matthews, led to 159,000 birds being slaughtered. The strain was linked to a similar strain found in an outbreak in Hungary in January.


http://www.foodqualitynews.com/news/...s.asp?id=76819
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  #24  
Old May 24th, 2007, 10:27 AM
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Default Re: Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales: not H5N1

Avian influenza (bird flu) confirmed in North Wales

Chief veterinary officer for Wales Dr Christianne Glossop has confirmed a case of avian influenza (bird flu) on a farm in North Wales.

The strain identified is H7N2 low pathogenic avian influenza. The strain is different to the highly pathogenic H5N1 strain currently circulating in South East Asia, and in Europe last year.

Great Britain and Wales contingency plans have been activated and the UK’s chief vet Debby Reynolds, has formally confirmed the presence of the virus in the UK.

The farm has been placed under restriction and a 1km restriction zone has been placed around it. The 30 remaining birds on the farm are being slaughtered today.

The source of infection is being investigated.

Poultry keepers are being reminded to report any suspicious signs of a notifiable avian disease to their local Animal Health Divisional Office. Members of the National Poultry Register will receive updates by text.

Avian influenza is a disease of birds. It is very rare for humans to become infected and even then it is normally associated with close contact with infected birds. The risk to the health of the general public is very low.

Routine tests are being carried out on people who work on the farm and anybody else who has been in close contact.

Further information

www.wales.gov.uk/avianflu

see also the avian influenza pages on this website

Page last modified: 24 May 2007, 15:00 hrs

Page published: 24 May 2007

http://www.defra.gov.uk/news/latest/...nimal-0524.htm
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  #25  
Old May 24th, 2007, 12:04 PM
Mamabird Mamabird is offline
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Default Re: Suspected bird flu outbreak in North Wales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by niman View Post
Both H5 and H7 are notifiable diseases.
Isn't it interesting that the United States refuses to play by these rules?

A/guineafowl/NY/4649-18/2006(H7N2) does not appear to have been reported to anyone, much less the World Organization for Animal Health (OIE).
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  #26  
Old May 24th, 2007, 01:18 PM
vinny vinny is offline
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Default Re: Bird flu outbreak in North Wales: H7N2

i thought low path h7 wasnt a killer of birds.........?.
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  #27  
Old May 24th, 2007, 02:12 PM
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Default Re: Bird flu outbreak in North Wales: H7N2

Dr Simmons said there is no ongoing risk to the public, and added: "We do not anticipate this virus transmogrifying into the H5 strain, but it's not impossible."




is this possible..........?






http://www.24dash.com/news/47/21031/index.htm
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  #28  
Old May 24th, 2007, 02:36 PM
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Default Re: Bird flu outbreak in North Wales: H7N2

??? "transmogrifying" ???

Isn't that the infamous machine used by Calvin & Hobbes?

J.
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  #29  
Old May 24th, 2007, 03:33 PM
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Default Re: Bird flu outbreak in North Wales: H7N2

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinny View Post
Dr Simmons said there is no ongoing risk to the public, and added: "We do not anticipate this virus transmogrifying into the H5 strain, but it's not impossible."

is this possible..........?

http://www.24dash.com/news/47/21031/index.htm
Being no expert..! I would say "Low Path" virus can turn into "High Path" by going through a series of hosts:

H5 viruses of low pathogenicity may become highly pathogenic usually after circulating in poultry flocks for a time (Pennsylvania, Italy).

Because of this, and the high mortality that 'low-path' AI can cause in turkeys, OIE and other bodies are currently examining ways to improve control of LPAI.

See current OIE records for up to date information on distribution of HPAI. Morbidity is high but mortality usually relatively low, 5-50%.


http://www.thepoultrysite.com/diseas...ai-fowl-plague


"Transmogrifying" ..., that is one for the real experts!
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Old May 24th, 2007, 04:52 PM
HenryN HenryN is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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Default Re: Bird flu outbreak in North Wales: H7N2

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinny View Post
Dr Simmons said there is no ongoing risk to the public, and added: "We do not anticipate this virus transmogrifying into the H5 strain, but it's not impossible."




is this possible..........?






http://www.24dash.com/news/47/21031/index.htm
No. Dr Simmons, if properly quoted, should consider another occupation.
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