Discussion - Obama says Americans should get swine flu vaccine

[prepdeb]

Thought there might be folks with comments to express.

Related news thread is
http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123664

Personal comments:

• I'm feeling underwhelmed by the message.
• I continually get the feeling that communication from authorities is all about them and not enough about the masses.
• I'd like to feel that minimizing human damage took higher priority than financial damage.
• I honestly think this could be an opportunity to help create or recreate an environment where neighborhoods and communities joined forces to work together for common goals. IMO, lessons learned working together could have a lasting and very beneficial effect on life after the pandemic.
• They don't seem to understand that far too many American citizens still don't think it's an issue worth worrying about or preparing for.

 

[pamwv41]

Re: Discussion - Obama says Americans should get swine flu vaccine

I believe that in the 1950s a swine flu type vaccine made a lot of people very sick with Gillian-Barre syndrome. I think I'd like to wait a month to see if the masses who take the shot get bad reactions. I'm also allergic to the mercury based preservative and can't get a flu shot in this area that does not contain it.
Our clinic in town won't even order it for me since my reaction is not life-threatening yet.

 

[JimO]

Re: Discussion - Obama says Americans should get swine flu vaccine

I'm not an anti-vaccine person and we have vaccinated our kids. I've also taken the seasonal flu vaccine a couple of times when it was not in short supply and I didn't feel that I was taking a dose from an elderly person who needed it. However, this vaccine makes me nervous for a number of reasons. First, it sounds like adjuvants will likely be used, which, to my limited understanding, have never been approved by the FDA. Second, the normal testing is being compressed and the process appears to have been rushed. Third, the vaccine makers have been extended immunity from liability for potential damages attributed to the vaccine. This sounds like a dangerous combination to me.

Along with these concerns is the timing of the vaccine with respect to the anticipated peak of the fall wave. It appears that the vast majority of vaccines won't be available until well into the peak and that full immunity will not be achieved until well after it passes.

There is also something else I don't understand. The vaccine is being given in two doses and no immunity is achieved after the first dose. That tells me that the two doses are fundamentally different. (Maybe someone can explain this to me in layman's terms.) If so, before I would accept the vaccine for myself or my family, I'd want to know for certain whether exposure to the virus after the first dose would not make a person more vulnerable to serious complications than if they had not been vaccinated.

If the first dose would make one more vulnerable, then I see no reason to get the vaccine for this next wave. I would consider it after this wave for protection in the spring.

The CDC knows there is a timing concern and the recent White House report addressed this issue explicitly. Knowing that the timing will make the vaccine of limited benefit for the fall wave, I don't understand why they are pushing it, especially if there is even the slightest chance that the first dose will do more harm than good if exposure occurs before the second dose.

So, the jury is still out for me. I will have to decide when, and if, the vaccine is available in my hometown and I will have to see how the virus spreads over the next four weeks.

 

[Niko]

Re: Discussion - Obama says Americans should get swine flu vaccine

Jimo, I agree. It is kind of creepy how often you express my thoughts

Regarding the need for 2 shots...I don't know why it is necessary from a immunity standpoint, but I know that children receive 2 shots of some vaccines (Hepatitis A, B, and DTaP for instance).

The hand washing advice and the mantra about 36,000 season flu deaths per year in the USA is getting quite old!!! Must every news report contain these tidbits? Where are the proactive recommendations for stocking food, water, medicines and other supplies? The planning for school and business closures? Etc????

 

[tropical]

Re: Discussion - Obama says Americans should get swine flu vaccine

I believe that in the 1950s a swine flu type vaccine made a lot of people very sick with Gillian-Barre syndrome.

Isn't this syndrome related to yearly inoculated seasonal vaccines too, and put as a note in every vaccine jab envelope.

If that' so, which compounds have the swine flu vaccine to make more GBs illness? The reason that time, and in '76 to make more cases of it, could be the more wide vacc. people numbers involved than the usual population who reach seasonal jabs.

Couldn't it be extracted the notion that all the ones vaccinated by the seasonal flu jab and not fall ill from this syndrome, could freely take the swine flu vaccine without got GBs?

 

[mixin]

Re: Discussion - Obama says Americans should get swine flu vaccine

"I think we've done an extraordinary job in preparing for this flu outbreak," he said. "The way it's moving is still somewhat unpredictable, but what I'm absolutely confident about is that our team that's assembled here has done an extraordinary job in preparing for whatever may happen."

The truth as he knows it? Much of the recent PCAST report was about how unprepared we are. But maybe I see it as a glass half empty and the govt sees it as a glass half full.

About 2 shots: I always thought an initial shot and then a booster was common so that's not a worry for me. Although I've read some of the testing is to see if a shot may be given in each arm in order to avoid 2 trips to the doctor. I'm not aware that the first one will make a person more vulnerable?

Adjuvants: I understand they've been used in Europe for quite some time with little or no apparent major side effects. If that's the case, and if we use the same formulation, then I'm not overly concerned about it. My first choice would be the egg-based and I think it will prove to be as safe as seasonal.

GB syndrome: they will be monitoring closely for that, even though they appear to be fairly certain it won't be a problem. There was speculation by the Working Group that either the batches in '76 were contaminated or there may have been a neuraminidase issue. See this thread http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117769

At this point, it's all a non-issue for me; I'm so far down the list it will likely be next summer before I get mine

 

[GennieF]

Re: Discussion - Obama says Americans should get swine flu vaccine

Are they trying to BS the public into thinking that there WILL be enough vaccine anyway? When would enough vaccine even be available to actually start doing that with the "regular" population versus the high risk groups? Just seems like a lot of spin to me.

 

[prepdeb]

Re: Discussion - Obama says Americans should get swine flu vaccine

I'm not against vaccination either. I've taken the seasonal flu jab almost every year for a long time now and have had 2 pneumonia vaccinations.

Not sure if the president is fully informed or not, but it doesn't sound to me like there can possibly be enough H1N1 vaccine to protect many this season.
Those who do get it will have to avoid infection until late in the year to be provided any protection from being vaccinated.

Although we both fall into risk groups, I prefer to wait and see on this one.

Guess I'd have felt better hearing that they are stockpiling masks, additional antiviral meds, purchasing more ventilators and working on plans for distribution of essential items if we experience disruptions.

Things like assuring adequate supplies of chemicals in water treatment facilities, beefing up healthcare staffing and stockpiling non-perishable food items would have made more of an impression.

I think too many are unconcerned, thinking there will be a magic shot or pill that will protect them if it gets bad.

Just my opinion.

 

[Mamabird]

Re: Discussion - Obama says Americans should get swine flu vaccine

Just to clarify a bit:

1. All the vaccines in the US are egg based, i.e. cultured in embryonic chicken eggs, not cell based which is new technology not yet available.

2. With a novel virus in which there is little herd immunity, the related vaccines may require two shots to produce enough virus specific antibodies to assure some protection, although no vaccine will ever provide 100% protection.

3. Clinical trials to date indicate that two shots of the Swine Flu vaccine may be required, given three weeks apart. You cannot get both at one time because your system will not make enough antibodies to provide reasonalbe levels of protection.

4. Adjuvant is an oil based additive to the egg cultured vaccine that has been shown to boost the host system response to the vaccine. Those are in clinical trails now. If those are successful, then perhaps one shot will be sufficient to provide reasonable protection. The US has purchased both antigen and adjuvant just in case.

5. As vaccines become available in mid-October, those most vulnerable to serious disease from Swine Flu will get priority.

 

[mixin]

Re: Discussion - Obama says Americans should get swine flu vaccine

Here's what I saw about giving 2 shots at once; it's Glaxo's adjuvanted H5N1 vax:

GSK’s Dresden-manufactured H5N1 vaccine is approved in the European Union (EU), Australia, Singapore, Malaysia, and Hong Kong. GSK plans to submit the QH5N1/AS03 vaccine for approval in Canada and the United States in 2009. The company has clinical data from 3,500 adults, ages 18–93 years, and a safety summary from approximately 9,900 adults, including completed studies with the Dresden vaccine. GSK believes the data are sufficient to support use of the H1N1/AS03 vaccine under an EUA and eventually licensure.

Although two doses of vaccine are required, the GSK H5N1/AS03 vaccine can be administered as two injections in separate extremities at a single visit and still achieve protection. This approach saves both time and antigen. pg 18

Novartis in Germany; is it licensed there?:
Novartis is producing a cell-culture based H1N1 vaccine at its facility in Germany and is working with HHS to build a plant in North Carolina.

 

[Mamabird]

Re: Discussion - Obama says Americans should get swine flu vaccine

Here's what I saw about giving 2 shots at once; it's Glaxo's adjuvanted H5N1 vax:

GSK?s Dresden-manufactured H5N1 vaccine is approved in the European Union (EU), Australia, Singapore, Malaysia, and Hong Kong. GSK plans to submit the QH5N1/AS03 vaccine for approval in Canada and the United States in 2009. The company has clinical data from 3,500 adults, ages 18?93 years, and a safety summary from approximately 9,900 adults, including completed studies with the Dresden vaccine. GSK believes the data are sufficient to support use of the H1N1/AS03 vaccine under an EUA and eventually licensure.

Although two doses of vaccine are required, the GSK H5N1/AS03 vaccine can be administered as two injections in separate extremities at a single visit and still achieve protection. This approach saves both time and antigen. pg 18

Novartis in Germany; is it licensed there?:
Novartis is producing a cell-culture based H1N1 vaccine at its facility in Germany and is working with HHS to build a plant in North Carolina.

Interesting. I hope the GSK vaccine works well with a single visit. Sure would cut down on the logistical nightmare we will have with two doses, 21 days apart.

US trials are not even designed to test the one-visit theory. The sanofi pasteur and CSL Limited Swine Flu vaccines are being tested at two differnt strentghs and one to two doses. The two doses given three weeks apart.

The only simulaneous trials in progress are one visit for Seasonal Flu and Swine Flu together, but only with the sanofi pasteur vacs.