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Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

No. I give you as an example H1N1. It is both the current seasonal flu and the swine flu. There are too many changes in the virus for your body to 'see' it as flu.
 
Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

they "combine" by reassortment, whole segments(8) are exchanged.

Immunity only "sees" HA(4) and to a lower degree NA(6),M(7)

when the new strain gets HA from H5N1, then there is
(almost) no immunity
 
Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

Thanks. One more question:

Why don't they take part of H5N1 and add it to our seasonal flu vaccine? In view of the high CFR of avian, isn't there SOMETHING that can be done to provide at least some immunity to the population, just in case?
 
Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

We don't know what H5N1 will look like when they finally meet. (I am purposely making the decision they will meet, as I think it is unavoidable) And just as now H1N1 swine is unrecognizable so too will be the mix of H5N1 and H1N1. We can't make a vax that will give you protection until we know what the disease will look like. At least using the technology employed by today's vaccine makers.
 
Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

Yes, I understand that. But aren't our seasonal flu vaccines based on a "guess" of what the viruses will look like in the coming year? In your opinion, would it be worth a try to start producing vaccines based on the best guestimates of what such a reassorted vaccine might look like?

Thanks again for your insights. Just trying to think outside the box.
 
Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

they were considering this. I think they should do it.
But diversity in H5N1 is rather big meanwhile, much more
than in seasonal flu. After all, flu mainly evolves in birds

It had been established, that we would probably need two shots
and the first one needn't be a so good match, when the 2nd is.

So we could get the first shot from the "seasonal" H5N1
and the 2nd specific then, when H5N1 goes h2h.
That spares some time then (only 1 shot needed instead of 2)

OTOH, they could store the non-specific vax now
and give it immediately when H5N1 goes panflu,
then in the meantime they produce the better, specific vax.

I think, that latter one is the strategy which most countries
in the EC follow ATM
 
Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

*IF* H1N1 and H5N1 reassort, does it have to end up being less virulent H5 but easier transmission?
 
Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

It would be pretty hard for it to be more virulent for most strains. Just being pragmatic here.
 
Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

it did it to chickens. Some strains are almost 100% lethal to chickens.

It is assumed and makes some sense, that virulence of reassortants
should go down.
It hadn't done yet, though. Although there were quite some
reassortments already (with other avian viruses)
 
Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

Yes, it did it in chickens. However, if a strain that bad did emerge we would be smarter than chickens and get out of the way. It would mean draconian measures but we do possess the ability to isolate such a drastic disease. I don't think that will be necessary, however.
 
Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

Shannon ...

You seem to be an expert (scientist) in virology ?

I have tried to bring this topic to discussion last week, but I don't think there were replies.

Why are vaccine companies still using eggs to produce vaccines?

It is so much more labor intensive, and so much more can go wrong handling eggs, than is the case with bioreactor production.

My spouse is producing rabies vaccine with 500L bioreactors.

- The production is much faster than the production with fertilized eggs.

- The production is perfectly controlled, monitored, and registered. If something goes wrong, you can reanalyze0 the recorded data.

- You can produce large quantities per run, and quickly scale that up by using level2+ production facilities which normally don't produce flu vaccines.

- It's perfectly sterile ... as opposed to working with eggs (I think).

- You can easily switch to the production of another vaccine ... say the virus is changing a lot this summer, you can start producing a new vaccine within a week.

I simply don't understand why they keep using eggs, the alternative is so much more quicker, efficient, and cheaper ???
 
Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

My degree is in science but, I am not a virologist. And, I would love to know why the decision wasn't made years ago to switch.
 
Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

The answer might very well be that bioreactor production is too cheap?

Vaccine companies would have to lower their prices too much if the production was much more faster and easier.

I hope some one can find an expert in vaccine production to comment.
 
Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

it's still cheaper in eggs (~30%, I guesstimate)

for typical amounts

it could be different for larger amounts
 
Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

This company from Quebec City offers a third alternative ...

Medicago is a publicly-traded biotechnology company focused on the development, production and commercialization of protein-based vaccines and biopharmaceuticals using a proprietary manufacturing system developed from its expertise in the genetic engineering of plants.

To face pandemic and seasonal vaccine supply challenges, Medicago has developed a proprietary transient expression system which produces recombinant vaccine antigens in the cells of non-transgenic plants. This technology offers significant advantages of speed and cost over competitive egg-based and cell culture technologies. It can deliver a vaccine for testing in about a month after the identification and reception of genetic sequences from the pandemic strain. This production time frame has the potential to allow vaccination of the population before the first wave of the pandemic strikes and to supply large volumes of vaccine antigens to the world market including developing countries.

The Company is developing its own proprietary pipeline of influenza vaccines.

In other words, growing vaccines in plants :reading: !

It seems to me that the added advantage of not using eggs (or human cells in bioreactors) is the use of non-transgenic plant cells. Meaning, the risk of allergies is a lot lower ???
 
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