• FluTrackers.com Inc. does not provide medical advice. Information on this web site is collected from various internet resources, and the FluTrackers board of directors makes no warranty to the safety, efficacy, correctness or completeness of the information posted on this site by any author or poster. The information collated here is for instructional and/or discussion purposes only and is NOT intended to diagnose or treat any disease, illness, or other medical condition. Every individual reader or poster should seek advice from their personal physician/healthcare practitioner before considering or using any interventions that are discussed on this website. By continuing to access this website you agree to consult your personal physican before using any interventions posted on this website, and you agree to hold harmless FluTrackers.com Inc., the board of directors, the members, and all authors and posters for any effects from use of any medication, supplement, vitamin or other substance, device, intervention, etc. mentioned in posts on this website, or other internet venues referenced in posts on this website.
  • We are not asking for any donations. Do not donate to any entity who says they are raising funds for us.

Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

Mamabird said:
Desolation_anonymous said:
I almost always agree with you Shannon, but I disagree with you here. I think daycares, though still a source for infection, are much, much better than schools for infection risk, and are likely to have a slower overall public infection rate than in schools.
Click to expand...

In our area of the little world, the public health authority's rules of engagement are to close individual schools as needed if they are experiencing a serious outbreak. However, if the decision is to close all area schools, that also goes for the daycare centers. Needless to say, tough decision.
Click to expand...

Good. IMO, the government should be taking this more seriously. If it were, perhaps our workplaces would too. (My point was just that, although daycare centers aren't 'safe' I don't think they spread as much as schools.)

IMO, it shouldn't take a 'serious outbreak' to do this. One un-needed life lost or serious complications experienced, that could be prevented, is too many.

Sure, the economic impact would suck,but how worth it would it be, for the great number of lives and people who wouldn't be affected, to simply inconvenience everyone for two simple months, to when after the vaccines are given?

The economy can and would recover. Lost lives and potentially permanent complications can't be recovered.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

My children's pediatrician used to call daycares "sewers."

When my oldest was young, he was asthmatic and had frequent pneumonia - daycares were not an option.

.
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

The economy can and would recover. Lost lives and potentially permanent complications can't be recovered.
Click to expand...

Agreed!!! Here's my 15 year old's take: "I'd rather us be poor than dead."
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

Shannon, good points. I agree, it will be nasty, either way.

I think many more kids will be kept healthy for awhile, or hopefully until a vaccine is available by closing schools and using social distancing.
Those in an emergency daycare setting will ideally be under the care of a health care worker who can implement infection control and isolation techniques.

Our economy is already a mess. If this pandemic takes a turn for the worse, we will see large numbers of people staying home. People won't be eating out, shopping or doing hundreds of other things that support our economy. Workers will stay home if they are sick or afraid of becoming so. I can't see anything that will keep our economy remaining stable if the pandemic gets a lot worse.

I know a lot about lunch programs. My daughter is a director of a Homeless shelter where I volunteer. Every summer they provide bag lunches for kids in a nearby park.
The numbers have grown each year. What is heartbreaking is to see an 8 year old come to the park carrying a baby with 4 other siblings in tow ages toddler to age 6. Arts and activities are provided for the day.

I agree with you Shannon ,that this is a no win situation unless local government speeds up planning for all these kids that will need help if school closes. In my mind, the needs of the children should trump any other considerations and keeping our kids alive is, or should be, our main concern.
I urge everyone to support the need for emergency day care. If this is an issue that keeps our government from closing schools, we need to work on it.
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

There are other options, it doesn't have to be all or nothing. TPTB need to be thinking outside the box, and I don't see a lot of that.

I have a friend who works but she partners with with several other families who take turns one day a week staying home/homeschooling the kids. They all work full time jobs. There are 8 kids in all.

8 kids/caregiver ratio give better odds than 25 or 35/caregiver. In addition to there being less vectors, there is a better chance that the caregiver can keep an eye on each child to make sure they are handwashing, etc.

Another idea, some of the teachers would want to keep working while the school is closed. The schools could utilize them in watching some of the kids whose parents really have no other option.

The lunch program can be continued, it just gets delivered to the homes instead.

It's not perfect, but we're not talking about stopping the spread, but reducing the spread and buying some time for a working vaccine. The children are WORTH coming up with alternatives. IMHO, right now they are sitting ducks.
 
Last edited:
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

Jmom said:
I have a friend who works but she partners with with several other families who take turns one day a week staying home/homeschooling the kids. They all work full time jobs. There are 8 kids in all.
Click to expand...

Your friend and the other parents are very fortunate to have employers who work will or allow them to miss a day so often.

As times have gotten hard, many employers have become less tolerant of absences, knowing there's a plentiful pool of people seeking jobs.
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

They don't "miss work", they work 5 and 6 day workweeks just like everyone else. It is just that their days off are during the week instead of the weekend. This group has coordinated their days off so that they are all off different days. Many jobs you can do this, like fast food, retail, etc.
 
Last edited:
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

I'll also add - my friend's co-op is not "fortunate" or "lucky". They got where they are through hard work and ingenuity. They are not wealthy, they are all blue collar workers.

Maybe everyone can't do this, but maybe many can. How many lives could it save?

You'd think it's worth the kid's well being to at least float some ideas.
 
Last edited:
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

I have taken the complete opposite approach. I have removed my daughter from school, and when it cools down she will go back.:)
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

Tonka, I already homeschool too (have for 7 years), so this is not so much a personal concern for me, except for my friends' kids in school.

I worry about the kids in general and believe there are some alternatives to just keep the schools open for the sake of the economy!
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

Jmom said:
I'll also add - my friend's co-op is not "fortunate" or "lucky". They got where they are through hard work and ingenuity. They are not wealthy, they are all blue collar workers.

Maybe everyone can't do this, but maybe many can. How many lives could it save?

You'd think it's worth the kid's well being to at least float some ideas.
Click to expand...

It's a wonderful plan that I'm sure they spent a great deal of time developing. So much suffering could be spared if people worked together for their common good.
Single parents, homeless families - the list is long.
Sharing responsibility with others who are like-minded could ease everyone's load and make the impossible possible.

Most of the large companies I've worked for (office setting) were not too flexible about workdays and hours. Some flex a bit on starting and stopping times and never insist you take two days a week off, but you're absolutely right that many occupations provide more flexibility.

Kudos to your friends and her network! :applause:
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

...it's worth the kid's well being to at least float some ideas.
Click to expand...
An employer may choose to accomodate a creative idea, rather than loose an employee.

Another option is working 4 10s (my favorite), and doing the same as your friends - staggering days off for a combined daycare effort.

Given the cost of daycare, I can see parents doing this without a pandemic.

.
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

I am speaking in generalizations here so bear with me...

Hubby and I ticked off several dozen types of jobs, service, sales, retail, food industry, construction - that have 7 day work weeks, where employees can choose a day off in the middle of the week. Or even take shiftwork opposite of their spouses'.

Generally speaking, these employees might often be the same people that would have trouble making ends meet in school closures and having to miss work.

Many of the jobs that require M-F workweek might pay more, meaning those employees might possibly be in a better position to afford daycare or a sitter, or even to arrange a job sharing situation with another mom/dad. Or in my case, arrange for telecommuting when I required months of bedrest.

I'm not saying ALL jobs are like this, I'm saying "in general".

As for how do these people find each other to work out timeshare? Well, people are able to find roomates, and carpool partners. Why not even use the school's website or bulletin board, or even school employees to help people "match up" for sharing of "child sitting" while school is closed.

TPTB could offer special future tax deductions or incentives for businesses that work with employees during pandemic.

Just sayin.

What I am saying, I wish TPTB would give the public some real solutions and ideas. And I wish they had been spending these past several years brainstorming for this scenario knowing that we were due for a pandemic at some point in the future.

By all means, anyone who can take their kids out of school when the time hits and stay home, that is ideal. I'm mainly addressing the concern that schools shouldn't close because of parent's having to work.

Anyway, that's all the ideas my old brain can come up with.
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

Many good points and suggestions!

"What we know is that we have the virus right now traveling around the United States," Sebelius said in a nationally broadcast interview. "And having children in a learning situation is beneficial ... What we learned last spring is that shutting a school down sort of pre-emptively doesn't stop the virus from spreading."
Click to expand...

What about all the plans for social distancing? I certainly did not anticipate that it would STOP a virus from spreading. The idea is to slow the spread to allow health care facilities and infrastructure to deal with more reasonable numbers at any given time.

Thoughts that came to mind reading through this thread...

As anyone who has more than one child knows, they rarely get sick on the same day - it more closely resembles a rollercoaster :rolleyes:. A couple of years ago, I had at least one child home from school for a period of 6 weeks!

If the schools close for 2 weeks, one or both parents may miss work if children are too young to stay home alone. However, if the virus infects one of the children, chances are that additional family members will become ill too. So, you trade missing work for 1-2 weeks and instead are facing the potential of missing several weeks to care for sick children, spouse or self. Which scenario would be worse for society, not to mention for a family's economy? Multiple that by X.

In addition, it would be a lot easier to find friends or family members to care for well children, than for sick ones :(

Regarding daycare centers. Our children school has over 500 kids. They all use the same restrooms, cafeteria, gym, art classroom, music room, library, etc. So they are not only exposed to the 25 or so in their class, but to literally 500+ kids on a daily basis! A daycare with a small fixed population would be a better choice for those whose parents lack other options.

In Sec. Sebelius' defense, it should not be her decision to close schools - states and local governments do retain some rights/responsibilities. However, she needs to be honest about the statistics and the vaccine prospects when addressing school policy makers and parental decision makers. - I can just hear the school officials now.. "but the Sec. said closing schools would help :rolleyes: To throw up the vaccine as THE answer is irresponsible, IMO. NOTE: I did not see the interview (yet) and can only base my opinions on the snippets from the article & TV.
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

I'm with those who favor homeschooling, despite the financial and logistical challenges that would result. BTW, for those who fear truancy charges or retribution, homeschooling is legal in all 50 states in the US. For those who are interested in learning the regulations of your particular state, a good source is http://www.hslda.org/laws/default.asp.
There are many support groups and outstanding materials readily available to those who choose to home-educate. Perhaps when the flu crisis has passed, you may even find that this style of education is preferable to regular school and decide to continue homeschooling! Good luck to all as we navigate the difficulties of this coming event.
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

I think the schools would make more safety-minded decisions if they could have temporary relief from a certain consequence of the No Child Left Behind Act. Poor schoolwide attendance has serious consequences for schools who are trying to make their annual yearly progress goals. (If they don't meet a bunch of certain goals the school could be taken over by the state.) I think a lot of schools covered-up the swine flu in the Spring, and my thought is that it is related to this aspect of NCLB.

I can see the economic consequences of closing schools or opening late, but some things can be done. Boston has announced measures that will be taken in Boston schools, but many of the surrounding cities and towns aren't saying anything.

High schools can close easier because those kids can be at home. I know everyone says they will just crowd the malls and everything, but I have a teenager and a lot of them just like to flop on a day off, watch tv and text each other.

What if there could be judicious school closings? Perhaps thousands of lives could be saved. I think schools with the virus could break for long weekends and such, making up the days when we have a good vaccine in place. I don't think it is fair that they don't give people some warning about the place they work/study when the virus is rolling through. It might seem that it should be obvious, but my school is 1700+ Yes, someone like me already has a room stocked with sanitizer, cleaning product and emergency supplies. However, lots of teachers think this is just a non-issue because we haven't seen serious hospitalizations in our city.
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

SagamoreJames said:
I think the schools would make more safety-minded decisions if they could have temporary relief from a certain consequence of the No Child Left Behind Act. Poor schoolwide attendance has serious consequences for schools who are trying to make their annual yearly progress goals. (If they don't meet a bunch of certain goals the school could be taken over by the state.) I think a lot of schools covered-up the swine flu in the Spring, and my thought is that it is related to this aspect of NCLB.
Click to expand...

Thank you for bringing that up. I didn't want to ;)
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

We are all working so hard toward these goals, and attendance is an excellent national goal. But I hope the government would recognize the tension created by this for administrators trying to make the right decisions this year.
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

SagamoreJames said:
We are all working so hard toward these goals, and attendance is an excellent national goal. But I hope the government would recognize the tension created by this for administrators trying to make the right decisions this year.
Click to expand...

I have had issues with our district's truancy policy. Your bringing NCLB into the equation helped make more sense of the policy. I just never considered it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom