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Italy - 8 of 10 initially positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus test negative in 2nd round - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - Ju

Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Based on the little we know of this virus it seems imprudent not to implement stricter measures of control
 
Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

I'm wondering what the time span was from first exposure to the testing?

Could they be asymptomatic, because the incubation period is longer than first thought?

Is there a possibility of an asymptomatic carrier status in sero+ people?

I'm wondering how much contact it took to cause seropositivity? Seems to me, it was pretty casual contact.

Disconcerting news, no doubt. Yes, the CFR will be lower, but, this seems to portend a more aggressive spread. I'm so thankful for this forum.
 
Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

In addition to the possibility of cross-reactive coronavirus tests, there is also this possibility:

https://twitter.com/MarionKoopmans

Marion Koopmans ‏@MarionKoopmans 2h @HelenBranswell yes. (Too?) early for serology. PCR contamination also possible. Needs to be confirmed. I would have everything retested
 
Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Published Date: 2013-06-03 21:57:06
Subject: PRO/AH/EDR> MERS-CoV - Eastern Mediterranean (18): Italy, contact screening, RFI
Archive Number: 20130603.1753321

MERS-COV - EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (18): ITALY, CONTACT SCREENING, REQUEST FOR INFORMATION
****************************************************************************************
A ProMED-mail post
http://www.promedmail.org
ProMED-mail is a program of the
International Society for Infectious Diseases
http://www.isid.org

[1]
Date: 3 Jun 2013
Source: Rai News 24 [machine trans., edited]
http://www.rainews24.it/it/news.php?newsid=178492


[Novel coronavirus - MERS-CoV], a dozen are positive without symptoms. Samples have been sent to ISS for confirmation

"Approximately a dozen people have tested positive" for the [novel coronavirus - MERS-CoV] "but are completely asymptomatic. We sent samples to the Institute of Medicine 'for confirmation'," says Professor Alessandro Bartoloni, head of infectious diseases at the AOU Careggi

"People with positive screening results" - continued the professor - "have not been isolated and are at home 'cause they have no signs. [We] continue to take samples and examine them to understand the extent to which the virus [is being transmitted] and' widespread '. The behavior of [the novel coronavirus - MERS-CoV] seems to have surprised the experts. "There was a belief, as indicated by the World Health [Organization]'- continues the infectious disease [specialist] - that the virus had limited transmission [person-to-person] and that infection led to aggressive disease. What we're seeing so far seems to be just the opposite -- widespread transmission and minimal to no disease. The scheme is 'reversed'.

The tests have been conducted on people who have had contact with someone who already 'is positive, although not presenting any symptoms. "In addition to the protection of persons - says Professor Bartoloni - this study will serve 'to figure out what is going on... The question at this point if whether the virus has been modified or if we are dealing with a totally different virus.

--
Communicated by:
Giuseppe Michieli
<gimi69@libero.it>
http://FluTrackers.com

******
[2]
Date: 3 Jun 2013
Source: La Stampa
http://www.lastampa.it/2013/06/03/i...za-sintomi-urVEjt40bOnIcV5Rn3BBNP/pagina.html


[Novel coronavirus - MERS-CoV], a dozen patients positive but without symptoms

The 3 hospitalized for [novel coronavirus] are in good condition.
-------------------
There are approximately a dozen people who have tested positive for the [novel coronavirus - MERS-CoV] so far but are completely asymptomatic. The samples were sent to the Institute of Health for confirmation, said Professor Alessandro Bartoloni, head of infectious diseases at the AOU Careggi today [3 Jun 2013]. The positive tests were obtained by throat swabs, were from individuals that did not have any symptoms so they are remaining at home (not hospitalized) under observation. The 3 patients with clinical symptoms are in good condition in the hospital and are in isolation. The index case, the 45 years old Jordanian male, should be discharged from the hospital either tonight or tomorrow at the latest. The man and the young girl "look good", reported the doctors, but for now will remain hospitalized for precautionary reasons.


Meanwhile, testing of individuals who have come into contact with these 3 cases is continuing, even in the absence of symptoms. The testing is not finished so the numbers of positives may still increase in the coming hours. "People with positive screening results - continued the professor - have not been isolated and are at home because they have no symptoms. We continue to take samples and examine them to see how far the virus has spread." The behavior of the [novel coronavirus - MERS-CoV] seems to have surprised the experts. "There was a belief, as indicated by the World Health Organization - continued the infectious disease [expert] - that the virus was had limited transmission [perso-to-person] and was quite aggressive. What we're seeing so far seems to be, however, just the opposite. The pattern is reversed. " "In addition to the protection of persons - says Professor Bartoloni - this study will serve us well to understand what is behavior of the virus. The question at this point is: has the virus has changed or is another virus? ?.

"The crisis unit set up last Friday [1 Jun 2013]" - said the Tuscany Regional Authorities - "is constantly monitoring the clinical and epidemiological situation." The Crisis Unit consists of technical advisers to the Councillor of Health, , the 2 teaching hospitals -the University Hospital of Careggi and the Meyer Hospital, and the Health Unit 10 in Florence [?]. In the afternoon [3 Jun 2013] in Florence, Dr. Giuseppe Ruocco, the Director General of Prevention in the Ministry of Health participated with the [University Hospital of] Careggi, at a meeting organized by the Tuscany Regional Department of Health. This meeting was directed by the Assessor Health Advisor Luigi Marroni. "The purpose of the meeting was to present the strategies, procedures and initiatives taken by the Tuscany Regional Health office, in order to report how the Ministry of Health is monitoring the situation. Tomorrow [4 Jun 2013] afternoon there will be a meeting of the crisis committee with experts from the Institute of Health, in order to complete the technical examination of the actions taken."

--
Communicated by:
Giuseppe Michieli
<gimi69@libero.it>
http://FluTrackers.com


[If the positive tests are confirmed by the Institute of Medicine, this will represent the 1st documentation of asymptomatic transmission of the MERS-CoV among contacts of clinically ill patients. The question raised by the presenting physician as to whether they are identifying a changed virus or whether they are identifying a different virus from the virus that has been associated with an apparently high case fatality rate is a good question. Another curious observation is that these positive specimens were obtained from throat swabs, and not lower respiratory tract specimens. Another difference from what has been observed up to the present. We await further information on this announcement.

It is not in the best interest of a virus to kill the majority of the individuals/hosts that it infects. It is considered somewhat suicidal, as it will ultimately kill off the majority of potential hosts.
 
Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Iss, only 3 new Sars cases confirmed, no symptoms for 10 suspects



Rome, June 4. (Reuters Health)-' so far confirmed cases of the new coronavirus in Italy are three, and patients are doing well. There is no confirmation for contact 10 positive results in early tests, all without symptoms. And asymptomatic people are hardly able to infect. In addition, there is no evidence that the virus has mutated. It clarifies the Adnkronos Health Department Manager of infectious, parasitic and immune-mediated diseases of the Istituto superiore di sanita (Iss), Gianni Rezza. ' The features of the new coronavirus are designed better, but it is important to note that at the moment the situation is under control.

http://www.itnews.it/news/2013/0604...rs-confermati-per-10-sospetti-no-sintomi.html
 
Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Sars infected, even among hospital staff


' No alarmism is an invitation for calm repeats in Tuscany by the health authorities, the players involved are only those who have had direct and prolonged contact with patients already hospitalized. The first patient to be infected was transported from Santa Maria Nuova at Careggi at the Department who specializes in infectious diseases, a move that increases the number of cases related to infection by Sars Coronavirus, ' ' that would be shifted in its chemical composition. In addition to individual patients controlled and involved, there are indeed cases among hospital staff, so the 3 cases of infection go up to 10. ' Situation under control ' explain health summits Tuscany, which in the past few hours have informed the Ministry and the National Institute of health that it placed a task force to be sent to Florence. All ready to intervene even in case of emergency ', as they are available at machinery structures helping respiratory activities already purchased during the first wave of swine flu. When patients do not present symptoms defined by the doctors ' serious ' and the invitation is not to create a State of panic.

http://www.nove.firenze.it/vediarticolo.asp?id=b3.06.04.11.06
 
Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Coronaviruses, 2 doctors among the 10 cases of the infection in Florence

3 nurses also: attended the patient from Jordan then died

Florence, June 4. (Afpenglish)-among the ten cases of people who are likely to have been infected by coronavirus, in Florence, five are medical staff who attended the patient arrived from Jordan and then died.It is a doctor of Infectious Diseases Department of Careggi, a doctor and three nurses at the Hospital of Santa Maria Nuova. before talking about ' positivity ' in all respects, is explained by medical sources, you must still wait for the acknowledgement from the Istituto superiore di sanità.




http://www.tmnews.it/web/sezioni/to...i-di-contagio-a-firenze-20130604_112002.shtml
 
Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Comment

These statements and attitudes are concerning.

Post 25
There is no confirmation for contact 10 positive results in early tests, all without symptoms. And asymptomatic people are hardly able to infect.

Post 20
"They have not been isolated because they are not presenting with any symptoms," Alessandro Bartoloni of the Infectious Diseases clinic at Careggi hospital in Florence was quoted as saying.

I do not believe that there is sufficient scientific knowledge as yet to know if an asymptomatic individual can transmit virus or not. There is very limited data on this virus or its transmission characteristics. We do not know the level of viral load required to generate a successful infection. If virus is sufficiently present to generate a positive test, it could potentially transmit or further adapt in the infected individual.

Nor do we fully know the incubation period before symptoms present i.e these cases could be a very early detection; we do not know what the result or course of infection may be in 7 - 14 days.

On a positive note, if these cases are indeed formally confirmed we may learn much about this virus if suitable testing and monitoring is carried out.
 
Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

I have been trawling through the news reports to try and find a definitive date of the date the index case (the 45 yr old) returned from Jordan to Italy and precisely when it was that he first started to show symptoms or was hospitalised.

Does anyone have this information that we can post to this thread to try and gain some perspective?
 
Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Try www.uq.edu.au/vdu.
I think I had that in my blog or on the MERS-CoV page

http://www.uq.edu.au/vdu/VDUMERSCoronavirus.htm
Cluster 8: Italy: The index case, a 45M Jordanian local returned to Tuscany, Italy after a 40-day trip to Jordan while ill. Upon his return on the 25th of May he already had fever, cough and difficulty breathing. He went back to work for at least 1 day before seeking medical care. He was hospitalised on the 28th of May and is stable. 45M's son also suffered an acute respiratory illness but remains in Jordan. 45M's granddaughter (1.5-year old; coughing and fever, Meyer Children's Centre) was in contact the previous Sunday (approximately 6-day incubation) and, along with a work mate, both tested positive. Neither are severe cases. 45M and his work mate both work in a hotel in Florence
 
Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

WHO and/or the Italian Ministry of Health needs to make an update before the close of business today about these media reports.
 
Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Source: La Repubblica, full text in Italian: (LINK). Excerpt.

Novel Coronavirus, suspected cases tested negative. Only three confirmed cases so far


Eight suspected close contacts of the first cases tested negative for the virus, said the National Institute of Health. Sixty Others remain under surveillance. Health Minister: ''The situation is under control.''

Samples from eight close contacts of the first confirmed Novel Coronavirus Italian Cases tested negative for the virus, according the second round of test performed at the National Institute of Health.

It was the head of the Infectious Department of the National Institute of Health, Gianni Rezza to announce the second test results. Earlier lab test was positive.

(...)

-
------
 
Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Samples from eight close contacts of the first confirmed Novel Coronavirus Italian Cases tested negative for the virus, according the second round of test performed at the National Institute of Health.

It was the head of the Infectious Department of the National Institute of Health, Gianni Rezza to announce the second test results. Earlier lab test was positive.
[/INDENT]

This - in my eyes - seems to cast some serious doubts on the credibility of this agency - you just dont make this sort of announcement (all positive) without doing the secondary (tertiary?) testing first.
 
Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Transparency has its cost.
 
Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

This - in my eyes - seems to cast some serious doubts on the credibility of this agency - you just dont make this sort of announcement (all positive) without doing the secondary (tertiary?) testing first.

There's a detailed algorithm for PRC / IFA testing for MERS-CoV (see WHO website: http://www.who.int/entity/csr/disea...LaboratoryTestingNovelCoronavirus_21Dec12.pdf )

It is unlikely that a InfluNet reference laboratory performed tests without proper validation of procedures and reagents.

I wonder whether the situation is mimicking the 2nd 'unconfirmed' H7N9 Beijing boy case (PCR+ but with mismatching 'clinical description' and 'case definition'; it emerged later that even the mother had PCR+ but she didn't meet also the definition).

I suggest Italian authorities to be honest and transparent and explain in full the reason for 1st and 2nd round of test results inconsistency. gm
 
Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

h/t Helen Branswell

Machine translation:

"Sars, according to test negative for eight patients
Rezza: "There are no new cases." Lorenzin: "No scaremongering."

No need to panic and, above all, accurate information on lung virus from Jordan and already nicknamed 'new' Sars. Gianni Rezza, director of the infectious diseases department of the ISS, the National Institute of Health, assured that "the samples of eight people in contact with ip atients affected by the virus and hospitalized in Florence were negative on the second test. " On the other hand, the first test result was positive. Rezza reiterated that "there are no new clinical cases confirmed so far, but continues monitoring by the Region of individuals who come in contact with patients."

VIRUS LESS AGGRESSIVE THAN EXPECTED. Minister of Health, Beatrice Lorenzin has pointed out that "the people who came in contact with the three infected individuals are all well. There is no kind of scaremongering, the situation is under control. "
"At the moment there is no evidence of a new mutation of the coronavirus responsible for SARS," he explained Rezza explaining that the ISS "has so far not confirmed any positive to the virus in asymptomatic patients reported and await the final analysis." The experts are in fact questioning the behavior of the virus that appears to be more easily transmitted than you knew but less aggressively than had appeared in the past.

NO EVIDENCE OF MUTATION. "To be able to say with absolute certainty that the virus has mutated," said Rezza, "we need to sequence it and analyze it and so far this has not been done. Of this virus does not yet know much and we have therefore for comparison purposes to say that looks like more aggressive than in other cases. For now we can only say that there is no scientific evidence of a mutation or particular aggressiveness of the virus. " However, the expert added, "the situation is at present under control. The three confirmed cases of patients who contract the new SARS cases are mild and there are no new confirmed cases from Saturday, June 1. "

Tuesday, June 4, 2013 "


xhttp://www.lettera43.it/benessere/sars-secondo-test-negativo-per-otto-pazienti_4367597704.htm
 
Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

[Source: Straits Times, full text: (LINK).]

Sars-like tests in Italy were false positives: Clinic

June 05, 2013 12:08 AM


ROME (AFP) - Eight people initially thought to have contracted a SARS-like virus in Italy tested negative on Tuesday after a second round of controls, according to Italy's Superior Health Institute (ISS).
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Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Source: WHO, http://www.who.int/csr/don/2013_06_01_ncov/en/index.html


Laboratory test was conducted by the influenza reference laboratory of Tuscany and confirmed by the National Influenza Center of the Istituto Superiore di Sanit?.
 
Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

Re: Italy - 10 - 12 positive asymptomatic cases of new coronavirus - waiting for Ministry of Health confirmation - June 3, 2013

The Ministry of Health site is unresponsive. Can anyone log on?

http://www.salute.gov.it/

"Unable to load the webpage because the server sent no data."



edit - It is back up now. 12:55 pm EST
 
Last edited:
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