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What to look for in August....

Re: What to look for in August....

I have had the feeling lately that I am not seeing the "whole" picture. Thank you RoRo for this, and FrenchieGirl. I was not able to go anywhere for a general analysis of the situation. And where do I find it......in the Discussion Forum. Under the title: "What to look for in August"...:(
 
Re: What to look for in August....

I have had the feeling lately that I am not seeing the "whole" picture. Thank you RoRo for this, and FrenchieGirl. I was not able to go anywhere for a general analysis of the situation. And where do I find it......in the Discussion Forum. Under the title: "What to look for in August"...:(

Is the frown because of how long it took to find this or because you didn't like what you see?
 
Re: What to look for in August....

The frown is because I just happened to stumble upon it. And I'm feeling a bit frustrated - I've been so busy trying to find the stories, that I was missing the whole picture. Not anyone's fault. Just mine. I'll spend more time "reading"...than "searching". :)
 
Re: What to look for in August....

The discussion is about what to look for in the coming months regarding H1N1 (aka Swine Flu). The following are notes taken from The Great Influenza by John M. Barry that dealt with the Spanish Flu of 1918 (page number is cited for the material from the book). The heading of the paragraph has been added.

LIKE A/H1N1 2009, THE SPANISH FLU STARTED OFF MILD IN THE SPRING
p. 170 The first unusual outbreaks in Europe occurred in Brest in early April, where American troops disembarked?.Still, although many got sick, these outbreaks were, like those in the United States, generally mild??the complications were few and nearly all troops recovered.

SOME EARLY WORRISOME CASES FROM THE SPANISH FLU (ditto for H1N1)
p.173 as influenza surged across Europe?they (researchers) had heard of some worrisome exceptions, some hints that perhaps this disease wasn?t always so benign after all?.One army report noted?.a rapidly escalating infection and lungs choked with blood ??fatal in from 24 to 48 hours.? Such a quick death from pneumonia is extraordinary.

THE SPANISH FLU ATTACHED THE YOUNG (ditto for H1N1)
p. 173 And in Louisville, Kentucky, a disturbing anomaly appeared in the influenza statistics. There deaths were not so few, and ? more surprisingly ? 40% of those who died were aged 20 to 35, a statistically extraordinary occurrence.

p. 173 In France in late May, at one small station of 1,018 French army recruits, 688 men were ill enough to be hospitalized and 49 died. When 5 percent of an entire population ? especially healthy young adults ? dies in a few weeks, that is frightening.

PNEUMONIA ACCOMPANIED THE SPANISH FLU (ditto for H1N1)
p. 174 Medical Service of the American Expeditionary Force in France ??Many cases have been mistaken for meningitis?Pneumonias have been more common sequelae in July than in April(1918) ?

RESISTANCE FROM EXPOSURE
p. 176 Many victims of the first wave demonstrated significant resistance to the second wave, which provides strong evidence that the deadly virus was a variant of the mild one.

PASSAGE THROUGH SUCCESSIVE HOSTS MAY INCREASE VIRULENCE (or why we should not let our guard down)
(Note: The following is why we all should have been concerned about limiting the spread of the current H1N1 regardless of whether it was mild or not)
p.177 ?Passage??.reflects an organism?s ability to adapt to its environment. When an organism of weak pathogenicity passes from living animal to living animal, it reproduces more proficiently, growing and spreading more efficiently. This often increases virulence. In other words, it becomes a better and more efficient killer.

If a pathogen kills too efficiently, it will run out of hosts and destroy itself..

p. 178 When the 1918 virus jumped from animals to people and began to spread, it may have suffered a shock of its own as it adapted to a new species. Although it always retained hints of virulence, this shock may well have weakened it, making it relatively mild; then, as it became better and better at infecting its new host, it turned lethal.

QUARANTINE DOES HELP!!!!!!!!!
p. 178-179 On June 30, 1918, the British freighter City of Exeter docked at Philadelphia. Dozens of crewmembers were ?in desperate condition??they seemed to die of pneumonia, but it was a pneumonia accompanied?by strange symptoms, including bleeding from the nose. ?.The brief quarantine had held the ship long enough that the crew members were no longer contagious when the ship docked. This particular virulent virus, finding no fresh fuel, had burned itself out. The city had dodged a bullet.

THE SPANISH FLU WORSENED DURING THE SUMMER OF 1918
p. 179 Even while medical journals were commenting on the mild nature of the disease, all over the world hints of a malevolent outbreak were appearing. In London the week of July 8 (1918), 287 people died of influenzal pneumonia, and 126 died in Birmingham.

SPANISH FLU TURNED VIRULENT SLOWLY
p. 180 Many histories of the pandemic portray the eruption of deadly disease?.as sudden and simultaneous?..In fact the second wave developed gradually.

SPANISH FLU SHOWED SIGNIFICANT INCREASES FROM AUGUST 1918
p. 181 Epidemiological studies?..noted ??a progressive increase in cases reported as influenza beginning with the week ending August 4, 1918 and of the influenzal pneumonia cases beginning with the week ending August 18.

VIRULENT SPANISH FLU VICTIMS HAD DARK SPOTS & TURNED BLUE

p. 180 Lack of oxygen was sometimes so severe that victims were becoming cyanotic ? part or all of their bodies were turning blue, occasionally a very dark blue.

p. 187 ..one of the army physicians?.wrote ?These men start with what appears to be an ordinary attack of?.Influenza?..they very rapidly develop the most vicious type of Pneumonia that has ever been seen. Two hours after admission they have the Mahogany spots over the cheek bones, and a few hours later you will begin to see the Cyanosis extending from their ears and spreading all over the face, until it is hard to distinguish the coloured men from the white.? P. 188 ?It is only a matter of a few hours then until death comes?It is horrible?

p. 187 In 1918 cyanosis was so extreme, turning some victims so dark ? the entire body would take on color resembling that of the veins on one?s wrists

VIRULENT SPANISH FLU VICTIMS COUGHED UP BLOOD OR BLED FROM OTHER PLACES (i.e. nose, ears)
p. 189 ?hundreds of young stalwart men in the uniform of their country?..The faces wear a bluish cast; a distressing cough brings up the blood-stained sputum.? Blood was everywhere?.pouring out of some men?s nostrils and even ears while others coughed it up. Many of the soldiers, boys in their teens, men in their twenties ? healthy, normally ruddy men ? were turning blue. Their color would prove a deadly indicator.

p. 226-227 Isaac Starr?thought at first his patients had ?what appeared to be a minor illness?with fever but little else. Unhappily the clinical features of many soon changed.? Most striking again was the cyanosis, his patients sometimes turning almost black. ?After gasping for several hours they became delirious and incontinent, and many died struggling to clear their airways of a blood-tinged froth that sometimes gushed from their nose and mouth.? Nearly one-quarter of all the patients in his hospital died each day.

VIRULENT SPANISH FLU KILLED THE YOUNG
p. 222 (October 1918, Philadelphia) ?nearly two-thirds of the dead were under forty?A lot of young people, just married, they were the first to die.

VIRULENT SPANISH FLU KILLED TWO PEOPLE IN A FAMILY
p. 224 Routinely two people in a single family would die.

MOST PEOPLE RECOVERED FROM THE SPANISH FLU IN TEN DAYS
p.231 Influenza ?.is transmitted so effectively that it exhausts the supply of susceptible hosts?.in many cities more than half of all families had at least one victim ill with influenza; in San Antonio the virus made more than half the entire population ill?The overwhelming majority of victims got well?.Victims had an extremely unpleasant several days (the unpleasantness multiplied by terror that they would develop serious complications) and then recovered within ten days?.But in a minority of cases, and not just in a tiny minority, the virus manifested itself in an influenza that did not follow normal patterns?.

SPANISH FLU KILLED MOST IN ISOLATED, ?GERM VIRGINAL? AREAS
p. 232 Generally in the Western world, the virus demonstrated extreme virulence or led to pneumonia in from 10 to 20 percent of all cases?.In other parts of the world, chiefly in isolated areas where people had rarely been exposed to influenza viruses ? in Eskimo settlements of Alaska, in jungle villages of Africa, in islands of the Pacific ? the virus demonstrated extreme virulence in far more than 20 percent of cases.


(will add more when time permits)
 
Re: What to look for in August....

Spread the Word

Tell your friends and family to become informed on the pandemic. Do it for the kids.
Out of Vietnam:




I can feel him in the morning,
I can feel him in the evening too.
I can hear him in the morning, tellin' me what I got to do.
Got to make a new world, ought to make the old one right.
I can see him in the morning, I can see him in the stars at night.



lyrics to a song by Grand Funk Railroad...http://www.youtube.com
 
Re: What to look for in August....

Time to take stock of where we are.

We are getting reports (unofficial) that people in Mexico are getting sick again with what appears to be swine flu again, possibly with more severe symptoms. If true that could indicate an antigenic change in the virus. We also have an interesting outbreak of what appears to be a hemorrhagic fever in Nepal with symptoms that sound suspiciously like severe flu as seen in 1918. Furthermore, hospitals in Malaysia are reportedly out of ICU and isolation beds.

On Malaysian Hospitals: http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=120360

On reinfection in Mexico: http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119767

Suspicious deaths in Nepal: http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=120275&highlight=dengue+nepal
 
Re: What to look for in August....

Originally Posted by Jeremy
Just in case anyone is interested...
It looks like we are going to have a moderate to strong El Nino this year.
Very similar to what happened in 1918 and 1957.

http://www.cpc.noaa.gov/products/ana.../ensodisc.html
I am seeing in a way a positive side to this news: less hurricanes to deal with. I can't imagine a mandatory evacuation in full pandemic. :(
here's another article about the link between el nino and swine flu (temp conditions, humidity, vit d). it's from may.

http://www.startribune.com/templates/Print_This_Story?sid=44564447
 
Last edited:
Re: What to look for in August....

This is a link to a historical site from the 1918 pandemic in Great Britain.
One of the articles compares summer influenza with fall and winter in terms of immunity.
The statistics of the time weren't up to our current standards but I'm sure our numbers guys (and gals) can analyze them.
Actually, the whole, lengthy pdf document is definitely worth a read.

It is eerie comparing then to now and seeing the similarities.

ST

http://influenza.sph.unimelb.edu.au/MOH_TOC.php
 
Re: What to look for in August....

What to look for in August ...
The graph below is from the Week 30 influenza surveillance report in Florida.
http://www.doh.state.fl.us/disease_ctrl/epi/htopics/flu/2009/index.html

Study the green line in on the graph (Sentinel Physician Data) on page 1.

Two points
1. The 07-08 season had a fall surge that may have been ignored previously, ie maybe the back to school fall surge has always been a part of influenza.

2. This season the summer baseline has remained high and we are seeing an uptick that may herald the fall surge. Should be more evident in two weeks (August 21).
JT
 
Re: What to look for in August....

Now that August is right around the corner I think we should remember what happened in 1918 around this time. While I am not saying that this is going to play out exactly like 1918, it is important to remember that we never had the sequences to know what the 1918 first wave strain looked like, ergo we don't know if it was more deadly when it first appeared in March of 1918.
"In late August 1918 (Roughly August 22nd), the second wave of the Spanish flu struck three port cities at nearly the same time. These cities (Boston, United States; Brest, France; and Freetown, Sierra Leone) all felt the lethalness of this new mutation immediately"

Without modern air travel the most logical conclusion, for the reason these three cities could got hit at the same time, is if the virus was already "seeded" or present in these locations.

With 2009 H1N1 already seeded, and the second wave almost upon us, I think we should all be on the lookout for the parallels to 1918. For August may very well be the Witching Hour...

Swine Flu May Not Be Any Deadlier This Fall: Experts
08.11.09, 04:00 PM EDT
Review of prior epidemics refutes theory that virus gets more severe


TUESDAY, Aug. 11 (HealthDay News) -- The theory that a relatively mild outbreak of a new flu virus in the spring predicts a more severe, deadly outbreak in the fall isn't borne out by a look back at prior epidemics, two U.S. experts say.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/hscout/2009/08/11/hscout629917.html?feed=rss_forbeslife_health
 
Re: What to look for in August....

TUESDAY, Aug. 11 (HealthDay News) -- The theory that a relatively mild outbreak of a new flu virus in the spring predicts a more severe, deadly outbreak in the fall isn't borne out by a look back at prior epidemics, two U.S. experts say.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/hscout/2009/08/11/hscout629917.html?feed=rss_forbeslife_health


Pointing out the possibility that it may not be more severe while failing to mention the probability that it will be more severe is dishonest.
Liam
 
Re: What to look for in August....

Pointing out the possibility that it may not be more severe while failing to mention the probability that it will be more severe is dishonest.
Liam

I agree if the authors believe that it is more likely to be severe than continue to be mild in terms of its overall manifestations.
 
Re: What to look for in August....

Hi Jeremy,

I am very limited in what I can share.

First, humblely dices are not all cast for H1N1 avian components predisposition.

I wish with all my heart that GP, Rn and institutions will directed people towards Acetaminophen not Ibuprofen (Avdil).

I hope that Town Hall willl granth a building for influenza medicine and PPE, we must keep up the actual critical dispenser of nevralgic medicines.

I hope that US citizens will not slipped in terror like a couple of centuries ago.

I hope that Tamiflu will not be given to children except in grave sases.

I hope the vaccines with ne dispatch without new adjuvants.

I hope the gov will DARE to tell the Publiv what can they do, what they must not do, via documents or on speakers atop an old trucks.

IN US Twitter can make a difference with colleges and universatarians even high schools if done intelligently.

Remenber Jeremy,

I am a Indian from Paris Texas in Canadian Terms.

Best wishes Jeremy

Snowy I shall always be
 
Re: What to look for in August....

There are lots of possibilties for the outcome, and no accurate probabilities. If you were responsible for planning a reasonable response, what would your planning assumptions be?

If you plan for the least, and it is not the least, you will be crucified. If you plan for the worst, and it's not so bad, you will be crucified.

What is left is the degree of illness that actually occurs, (the actual people who are affected by your decision) and that you, as a responsible planner, have to go to bed with every night. I feel a great deal of empathy for those that have to decide.

Snick
 
Re: What to look for in August....

The hospitals will be overwhelmed, people asked to stay home and cope the best they can. If the flu doesn't kill you outright, pneumonia will be the next bigest problem. Hopefully you will have a "flu" buddy to go and get some antibiotics. Some areas will do well, others poorly. Hopefully we can work together and get thru this.
 
Re: What to look for in August....

So here we are...starting in on late August.

What does everyone think?

For me, one thing is reassuring. While we have seen this current H1N1 virus cause deaths, we haven't seen a lot of death clusters. We know that in 1918 the deaths were not often isolated incidents, but groupings of clusters of individuals.

So far, I have not seen too much (very isolated incidents) data to support widespread clusters of H1N1 deaths.

Now, this might be to the virus, or this might be because of the advances in medicine. For example, there are people that have been in the ICU for 3-4 weeks on ventilators that end of surviving that in 1918 would have been dead the first week.

So one reason we might not be seeing these type of clusters is because of our medical advances to date.
 
Re: What to look for in August....

So one reason we might not be seeing these type of clusters is because of our medical advances to date.

Perhaps, but hospitalizations, although high in certain high denisity areas, have been remarkably low as well. So far, most of the millions that have contracted this pandemic Swine Flu have recovered without medical assistance.
 
Re: What to look for in August....

Perhaps, but hospitalizations, although high in certain high denisity areas, have been remarkably low as well. So far, most of the millions that have contracted this pandemic Swine Flu have recovered without medical assistance.

Agreed. However, do we have first wave data to compare to hospitalization rates in 1918, 1957, and 1968?

I just want to make sure that we are comparing apples to apples.
 
Re: What to look for in August....

Agreed. However, do we have first wave data to compare to hospitalization rates in 1918, 1957, and 1968?

I just want to make sure that we are comparing apples to apples.

I have'nt seen any reliable data on hospitalizations by month for the three previous pandemics, but I think we are comparing apples and oranges.

As the famous saying goes, "if you have seen one pandemic, you have seen one pandemic". You just cannot compare the existing Swine Flu virus with any others. It has its own characteristics and future, and it will let us know what that will be in the months ahead.
 
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