Panasonic Says Bringing Workers Families Home Due to Pandemic Fears - Discussion, Economic Considerations, Other Companies Pan/Flu Plans

[tropical]

Re: Panasonic Says Bringing Workers Families Home Due to Pandemic Fears - Discussion, Economic Considerations, Other Companies Pan/Flu Plans

First of all, ?Panasonic did it for economic reasons? is not my theory.
...
to stockpile foods and daily supplies on his own expense. As for antivirals and PPE, his company may give him for free or at a discount price or only help him buy for himself. Because this is for him to stay in his condo during a pandemic. If this were for the workplace use, his company will pay.

I?m not sure what you mean by the word ?Just-in-time? in this contexte.

Paraphrasing, ?Many people feel that they cannnot take such a drastic measure as sending their families back to Japan, because they don?t know when a flu pandemic will occur.? Otherwise, they are separated from their families, without knowing for how long.

Again believe or not, the pandemic flu is a very hot issue in corporate Japan. It wasn't hot two years ago when the rest of the world was hot.
Talking about the risk of a pandemic, was the risk really higher then than now? If candidate viruses are mutating to acquire more human virus attributes, and if a flu pandemic is not a question of "if" but "when", we are inching forward to a flu pandemic everyday. Then, why the risk was considered higher then and is considered lower now?

I think Panasonic ordered to send the expatriate families back home for the safety of the families in the first place. Another reason may be to make the expatriates focus on the Business Continuity Plan. I guess maybe Panasonic is involved in the supply chain of infrastrucure companies and medical institutions.
_________________________
SN1987A

Thank you very much Supernova. for your answers.

Now the cited moves are a little clearer.
First I shall try to pointing further from the above text lines.

The risk isn't realy considered lower now from my post view:
"... the risk was believed to be higher(!?)."
- I wroted believed (at the time 2005-06) because than this new virus start to agressively killing poultry, and affected new species (mammals/cats) in a relatively short time period, with some human clusters, and the HongKong bird flu (bf) begining scarry ('97) seems to started again - but after 12 years from '97, and 4 years from '05 and the catastrophic pandemic predictions - it remains in its agressive form an primary poultry big numbers killer;
- additionaly the OIE classed it as an "very stable virus" in the meantime;
- there are media reports now that it possible circulate with low incidence and outcomes into many humans with or without symptoms;

So 2005 the risk believed to be higher but nothing happened 4 years, and the mainstream media awareness is quoted as lower risk now,
but realy it could be higher ... :reading::yinyang:


The waters remains stil murky.

As readed from your reply, the stockpiles of everything neccessary, are self-financed with a little help.
This can point to an preparedness-only situation, without an near incoming pandemic event.

The above information of workers preparedness self-financing is the right answer to my question why now Panasonic wants to spend money NOW on stockpilling everything neccessary for an pandemic schedule of 3-6 months - they did NOT.

By the self-financing they did not spend anything more, so the Just In Time (JIT) buy/sell schedule and the bad state economic situations worldwide because of the financial colapse - remark means nothing, because Panasonic would not spend any more money with this preparedness stocking at the field, even maybe it would spare more than in case of paying additional fees for the workers divided family living - especialy when nobody knows for how long.


To make a wild shot from the above and the formulation "they don?t know when a flu pandemic will occur", it could be presumed that there is NOT any immediate danger.

Such prediction could be maybe corroborated by the fact that only 1 corp. out of 39 started to realy implement even this low-level worker self-financing preparations.

If indeed the Japan estab. came to the conclusion that actualy the situation is "hot", much hotter than few years ago, than that is not much visible from their corporate moves.

As Florida did comment with an question in her post #159:
"... does Japan's proximity to China, Vietnam, and other Southeast Asia countries who have a history of bird flu infections give Japan some special knowledge that is not in presented in the media in 2009?"

 

[gsgs]

Re: Panasonic Says Bringing Workers Families Home Due to Pandemic Fears - Discussion, Economic Considerations, Other Companies Pan/Flu Plans

almost everyone considered the risk higher in 2005/6 than now.

WHO,AEI,experts,governments,flubies,...

see Tamiflu-stockpiling,papers about H5N1,risk statements,
flow of money for preparation, web-traffic in flubie-groups, forum
probability estimates, statistics of official human H5N1-cases,
avian outbreaks, spreads to new countries and continents


no reason to assume that Japan should be special, pandemicwise,
other risk than the rest of the world.

It's all psychology , random or steered media attention

 

[tropical]

Re: Panasonic Says Bringing Workers Families Home Due to Pandemic Fears - Discussion, Economic Considerations, Other Companies Pan/Flu Plans

almost everyone considered the risk higher in 2005/6 than now.

WHO,AEI,experts,governments,flubies,...

see Tamiflu-stockpiling,papers about H5N1,risk statements,
flow of money for preparation, web-traffic in flubie-groups, forum
probability estimates, statistics of official human H5N1-cases,
avian outbreaks, spreads to new countries and continents


no reason to assume that Japan should be special, pandemicwise,
other risk than the rest of the world.

It's all psychology , random or steered media attention

I curved in this thread from Panasonic pandemic behaviour to economic only, or maybe both to not more pandemic probability now.

But Supernova. who is down there on the field, wroted this is more than hype. Even that, for Japan, the pandemic situation is an "hot" item.

Now, it is easy to said that it is only an mediatic "Mars attack", but if we want to be aware before the official media public relations (which ordinary came on only when an illness comfortably spreads wider), we must assume that when it is visible some sign of smoke in the air, maybe some fire is deep coverted in the bush.

What if other countries estabs know the same what Jap. but don't want publicly admit or conduct their preparations now?
In that case it would be some fire under, not only smoke ...

Maybe Supernova., or somebody else could gain more infos from the Jap. med research conclusions.

 

[gsgs]

Re: Panasonic Says Bringing Workers Families Home Due to Pandemic Fears - Discussion, Economic Considerations, Other Companies Pan/Flu Plans

why is it hot now in Japan, what do you think ?

Do they have some additional secret information ???

(which they don't share, so they get a possible advantage
over the rest of the world in a pandemic ???)

 

[SuperNova1987A]

Re: Panasonic Says Bringing Workers Families Home Due to Pandemic Fears - Discussion, Economic Considerations, Other Companies Pan/Flu Plans

Thanks Supernova1987A.

I have started to read the Japanese newspapers with the help of a machine translator and from that vantage point it appears that "pandemic" is a hot topic similar to 2006 in the U.S.

It does make logical sense to increase awareness as the threat becomes more likely. The question is how much of the "pandemic talk", awareness campaigns, vaccine actions, corporate activity, etc. is a result of good planning and preparation for an eventuality, and how much is due some insight of the evolution of the pandemic.

For instance, does Japan's proximity to China, Vietnam, and other Southeast Asia countries who have a history of bird flu infections give Japan some special knowledge that is not in presented in the media in 2009?

Pandemic flu is a hot issue in Japan not because its risk is greater. nor according to a Japanese government plan, nor because of secrete information about the evolution of virus.

It is simply a chain of various events that brought us here today over the course of two to three years. In the case of pandemic flu, things didn’t heat up instantaneously like in the case of North Korean missile launch but heated up slowly and gradually and peaked at the beginning of this year because (1) Japanese government revised and completed its plan and guidelines for the flu pandemic, (2) we had a busy, eventful flu season, and (3) the human bird flu cases in China stirred up Japanese people’s interests and fears about the flu pandemic. (from next door!)

Now it is very much easier for us to work on the pandemic preparedness than two years ago. We don’t know for how long this situation will last. So, we are trying to go forward as much as possible.

Actually, it may already be cooling down with the end of flu season. Moreover, budget constraints are tighter because of the economic situation. But fortunately, we still don’t know the “pandemic fatigue”. And we are not forced to be let down by an unscrupulous article in a leading newspaper like Washington Post.

Going back to your point, the reason why I mentioned the evolution of virus in my previous post is not because we know something special about the situation in China but because we often heard experts like Nancy Cox of CDC mention the evolution of virus to explain how a pandemic occurs.

If we know anything about the real situation in China, we know the patients of H5N1 are ordinary people from rural area, working on a temporary basis for low salary and very poor. So when a patient becomes sick, he will not go to a hospital because hospital is too expensive for him. Instead, he goes to a small clinic around the corner to get IV, the only treatment available. When the sickness turns worse, he moves to a small hospital in the municipality to get injections and some ordinary medicines. Then, he is sent to a big hospital to have an X-ray, diagnosed as H5N1 for the first time and given antivirals. By that time, he is already in a critical condition. This is the reason why H5N1 patients in China change medical institutions.

More than that, the patient’s family will receive bills from the medical institutions, amounting to a fortune. Unfortunate deseased patients really are, but the recovered will have a very hard time to pay the bill.

Judging from the situation, it is not surprising if any H5N1 patient always stayed home until he eventually dies or if he refused to go to a higher hospital and was never diagnosed as H5N1.

In Indonesia, bird flu patients are also poor people and the situation is similar or even worse. An H5N1 patient cannot go to a hospital because hospital costs months of his salary. So he goes to a magic doctor who will pray to God for his recovery. He feels dizzy and sleepy, dying, unable to know whether it is because of a high fever due to H5N1 or special solution which his magic doctor prepared for him.

Another point is that my colleagues say many local newspapers are not reliable. They publish anything, everything. Articles are often unclear, inaccurate, inconsistent and conflicting each other. No wonder, you find a bird flu article and a UFO article in the same paper.

_________________________________
SN1987A

 

[tropical]

Re: Panasonic Says Bringing Workers Families Home Due to Pandemic Fears - Discussion, Economic Considerations, Other Companies Pan/Flu Plans

#165 (answer to gsgs #164 also):
"Pandemic flu is a hot issue in Japan not because its risk is greater.
nor according to a Japanese government plan,
nor because of secrete information about the evolution of virus."


We can cool down than.

The virus is "stable" (OIE).
Who could make prevention now, ok,
the others later ...

 

[SuperNova1987A]

Re: Panasonic Says Bringing Workers Families Home Due to Pandemic Fears - Discussion, Economic Considerations, Other Companies Pan/Flu Plans

The above information of workers preparedness self-financing is the right answer to my question why now Panasonic wants to spend money NOW on stockpilling everything neccessary for an pandemic schedule of 3-6 months - they did NOT.

By the self-financing they did not spend anything more, so the Just In Time (JIT) buy/sell schedule and the bad state economic situations worldwide because of the financial colapse - remark means nothing, because Panasonic would not spend any more money with this preparedness stocking at the field, even maybe it would spare more than in case of paying additional fees for the workers divided family living - especialy when nobody knows for how long.

Wait a minute. Who told you Panasonic was not stockpiling? I only wrote the stockpiling guy in Malaysia wouldn’t be a Panasonic employee. And I didn’t write whether or not Panasonic is stockpiling because I don’t know.
Also, I wrote, generally speaking, if the stockpile was for private use, employees would pay and if the stockpile was for workplace use, the company would pay.

To make a wild shot from the above and the formulation "they don’t know when a flu pandemic will occur", it could be presumed that there is NOT any immediate danger.

You could presume but I think they don’t know whether or not there is any immediate danger.

Such prediction could be maybe corroborated by the fact that only 1 corp. out of 39 started to realy implement even this low-level worker self-financing preparations.

The stockpiling guy cannot be a low-level worker. He would be a director, general manager or at least department head of his company.

If indeed the Japan estab. came to the conclusion that actualy the situation is "hot", much hotter than few years ago, than that is not much visible from their corporate moves.

If you think Japanese government cares Japanese companies in overseas and the companies in return follow the government in harmony, maybe a beautiful relationship but a complete illusion. Japanese government’s real feelings toward Japanese companies will be “take care of yourself and save your own axx”. And the companies cannot rely on the government much.
This is because the government will have to take care of tens of thousands of Japanese individual travellers because they are the most vulnerable, many aged people, not speaking a foreign language, not familiar with the situation of the visiting country, no relationship with anybody, no stockpile, etc. (This is an official statement.)
Also because Japanese embassys and consulates are so beauraucratic and imcompetent. (This is real feelings.)

_________________________
SN1987A

 

[tropical]

Re: Panasonic Says Bringing Workers Families Home Due to Pandemic Fears - Discussion, Economic Considerations, Other Companies Pan/Flu Plans

Wait a minute. Who told you Panasonic was not stockpiling? I only wrote the stockpiling guy in Malaysia wouldn’t be a Panasonic employee. And I didn’t write whether or not Panasonic is stockpiling because I don’t know.
Also, I wrote, generally speaking, if the stockpile was for private use, employees would pay and if the stockpile was for workplace use, the company would pay.

You could presume but I think they don’t know whether or not there is any immediate danger.

The stockpiling guy cannot be a low-level worker. He would be a director, general manager or at least department head of his company.

If you think Japanese government cares Japanese companies in overseas and the companies in return follow the government in harmony, maybe a beautiful relationship but a complete illusion. Japanese government’s real feelings toward Japanese companies will be “take care of yourself and save your own axx”. And the companies cannot rely on the government much.
This is because the government will have to take care of tens of thousands of Japanese individual travellers because they are the most vulnerable, many aged people, not speaking a foreign language, not familiar with the situation of the visiting country, no relationship with anybody, no stockpile, etc. (This is an official statement.)
Also because Japanese embassys and consulates are so beauraucratic and imcompetent. (This is real feelings.)
_________________________
SN1987A

Thank you Supernova.
Detail by detail the situation is cleared more and more.

Substantialy, looking the Jap. corporates workforce, their preps: "“take care of yourself and save your own axx”", are similar to the famous few years ago other place prep suggestion: "you are on your own".

So, without an more precise Jap. health estab public release, we could assume that nothing realy new starting nearby
("I think they don’t know whether or not there is any immediate danger").

I don't want to interfere with the news sources, but I'm previously assumed that the "stockpiling guy" is an Panasonic Japanese citizen employee working at the field in Malaysia.
(*) This impression was fueled by the discussion about the Panasonic employees (who are Japanese citizens) family reimpatriation question.

So now, from these words:
"I only wrote the stockpiling guy in Malaysia wouldn’t be a Panasonic employee."
and
"The stockpiling guy cannot be a low-level worker. He would be a director, general manager or at least department head of his company."

it could be readed that "the guy" is an high ranked employee of an whatsoever company which have an agreement with Panasonic to became their's dealer/... in Malaysia, and is not part of the above cited (in the (*) marked sentence) population (?)

 

[SuperNova1987A]

Re: Panasonic Says Bringing Workers Families Home Due to Pandemic Fears - Discussion, Economic Considerations, Other Companies Pan/Flu Plans

Substantialy, looking the Jap. corporates workforce, their preps: "“take care of yourself and save your own axx”", are similar to the famous few years ago
other place prep suggestion: "you are on your own".

Yes. These are proper words. :tiphat:

I don't want to interfere with the news sources, but I'm previously assumed that the "stockpiling guy" is an Panasonic Japanese citizen employee working at the field in Malaysia.
(*) This impression was fueled by the discussion about the Panasonic employees (who are Japanese citizens) family reimpatriation question.

Don't worry I have no idea who is the news source.

Then, why did I think the guy would not be a Panasonic employee?

If he is a Panasonic employee, his family will be in Japan. (due to the repatriation)
Then, he will go back to Japan at Phase 4 when his company allows him to do so. (Otherwise his wife will kill him.)
So, if he is a Panasonic employee, he cannot stay in Malaysia.

If his company doesn't allow him to go back to Japan because he needs to implement BCP for his company?
In that case, he will stay in his office or factory.

But he will stay in his condo in Malaysia.

Conclusion: He will not be a Panasonic employee.

it could be readed that "the guy" is an high ranked employee of an whatsoever company which have an agreement with Panasonic to became their's dealer/... in Malaysia, and is not part of the above cited (in the (*) marked sentence) population (?)

If I understand you correctly....
His company may be related to Panasonic or not related to Panasonic.
He may be with Toyota, Sony, etc.


_________________________
SN1987A

 

[tropical]

Re: Panasonic Says Bringing Workers Families Home Due to Pandemic Fears - Discussion, Economic Considerations, Other Companies Pan/Flu Plans

Thanks Supernova.

#167: "So, if he is a Panasonic employee, he cannot stay in Malaysia."

"(Otherwise his wife will kill him.)" that could be doubtful in Japan ...

 

[SuperNova1987A]

Re: Panasonic Says Bringing Workers Families Home Due to Pandemic Fears - Discussion, Economic Considerations, Other Companies Pan/Flu Plans

Realities of "Panasonic shock"　and blind spot of expatriate family homecoming April 8
Source: http://medical.nikkeibp.co.jp/leaf/all/special/pandemic/topics/200904/510168.html

Shocking news was broadcast in February.
Panasonic, a Japanese leading company, decided to send expatriate families back home because of the Pandemic flu preparedness. "This is a part of our measures that make the safety of life a top priority", Panasonic explained. However, voices arose why it was this timing, and among others, a mental health expert expresses his concern whether the decision neglects mental health issues of employees who will stay alone.

March 24, a seminar on the pandemic flu measures for companies and associations was held in Fukuoka and Kenji Koga, general manager of the overseas safety measures office, International HR center of Panasonic explained the company?s measures.

Panasonic had already laid out the framework for the group to promote its action plan against the pandemic influenza and is in the process of preparing a business continuity plan (BCP). Family?s repatriation is according to the plan.

Panasonic group has about 1900 expatriates working overseas and family members amount to about 2100 in 46 countries. This time, all the family members except those who are in western countries, Singapore, Australia and New Zealand, will return to Japan. About 20 family members are ?exceptionally? allowed to stay for such reasons as children attending local highschools but the rest will repatriate by September 30.

Panasonic established the following basic principles for the plan,
(1)give first priority to the safety
(2)try best to prevent the spread of infection
(3)continue business subject to the safety of life

Based on these principles, Panasonic has been working step by step on education and training, measures for the expatriates and their families, surveillance of signs, purchase and stockpiling of preventive equipments, preparation of antivirals, etc.

Repatriation of families is implemented as a part of the entire measures.

But, why this timing?

The Ministry of foreign (MOF) affairs will issue to Japanese overseas residents and travellers critical information about infectious diseases according to WHO?s decalaration of pandemic phases.

For example, before WHO?s declaration of Phase 4, when Japanese government finds a suspicous case of pandemic flu outbreak, MOF will issue critical information saying ?Please consider in advance the possibility of a future evacuation.?

After WHO?s declaration of Phase 4, MOF will issue critical information saying, ?It may become impossible for you to leave the country or receive sufficient medical care. Regarding the evacuation, please also take these points into consideration. Please keep in mind you may be quarantined when you return to Japan.?

According to Mr. Koga, he judged it would be impossible to complete the evacuation of expatriate families before the declaration of Phase 4. At the point where the critical information requesting to consider the evacuation before the decalaration of Phase 4 is issued, Japanese residents and travellers will rush for the airplanes to Japan. However, it is uncertain whether regular flights will be operated normally or.whether airplanes of Japanese government or self defense force will fly. Moreover airports may be closed in certain countries and regions. After taking these points into consideration, the decision was made. Sending expatriate families back home before expatriates is a way to diversify risk and no alternative was available.

How to deal with mental health problems of employees who are forcibly separated from their families

Many people within the group expressed doubts and discontent about the repatriation of families. Especially, representatives in those countries where no case of human bird flu infection occurs were strongly critical.

From outside Panasonic, because it coincided with the world recession, people suspected that Panasonic might have used the Pandemic flu plan as pretexte for cost cutting. Especially, other company?s employees and their families who are in a similar circumstance almost outcried in blogs ?Do not forcibly separate the families of your employees.?

Within it, many piercing opinions such as ?Do not forget that the family is a spiritual support for your employee.?

Dr. Katsuta (Kinki Medical and Welfare University) who served as medical officer in Japanese embassy in Beijing at the time of SARS expansion in 2003, warns from the standpoint of psychiatrist as his specialty.

Giving a priority to the repatriation of families is to force expatriates to be separated from their families indefinitely as long as no sign of a flu pandemic is in sight. Adverse influence on their mental health is inevitable.

Dr. Katsuta

-snip-

The repatriation will relieve expatriate families from danger of being infected with the pandemic flu to a certain degree. However, Panasonic didn?t mention anything about mental health problems of expatriates who are separated from the rest of the family.

The repatriation of expatriate families at Phase 3 as a counter measure cannot be evaluate without providing expatriates with measures that can be a substitute of their families. .

(Mamoru Sanwa, Nikkei Medical Special Edition)


___________________________________________
SN1987A

 

[tropical]

Re: Panasonic Says Bringing Workers Families Home Due to Pandemic Fears - Discussion, Economic Considerations, Other Companies Pan/Flu Plans

Thanks Supernova.
So some small increased possibility for the next year exists (a little smoke possibility).

I'm glad to see that their citizens will be informed a little bit earlier than from the WHO estab phases in case of incipient pandemic.
Interesting excerpts from the Supernova. given news text:

#171:
"But, why this timing?

The Ministry of foreign (MOF) affairs will issue to Japanese overseas residents and travellers critical information about infectious diseases according to WHO’s decalaration of pandemic phases.

For example, before WHO’s declaration of Phase 4, when Japanese government finds a suspicous case of pandemic flu outbreak, MOF will issue critical information saying “Please consider in advance the possibility of a future evacuation.”

After WHO’s declaration of Phase 4, MOF will issue critical information saying, “It may become impossible for you to leave the country or receive sufficient medical care. Regarding the evacuation, please also take these points into consideration. Please keep in mind you may be quarantined when you return to Japan.”

According to Mr. Koga, he judged it would be impossible to complete the evacuation of expatriate families before the declaration of Phase 4.

At the point where the critical information requesting to consider the evacuation before the decalaration of Phase 4 is issued, Japanese residents and travellers will rush for the airplanes to Japan.

However, it is uncertain whether regular flights will be operated normally or.whether airplanes of Japanese government or self defense force will fly. Moreover airports may be closed in certain countries and regions.

After taking these points into consideration, the decision was made.

Sending expatriate families back home before expatriates is a way to diversify risk and no alternative was available."

 

[gsgs]

Re: Panasonic Says Bringing Workers Families Home Due to Pandemic Fears - Discussion, Economic Considerations, Other Companies Pan/Flu Plans

this thread started 2009/Feb.09

the pandemic probably started Jan. or Feb. 2009 ,
first confirmed case Feb.24


what a coincidence , watch Panasonic ...